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Post by paddyjk19 on Feb 27, 2020 21:32:51 GMT
Bit short on time these days but gave this swing a go for shits and giggles during tournament play as no time to warm up.
I believe my scores speak for theirselves...
+5 was the best of the bunch š¤£
Not for me
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Post by unclevirt on Feb 28, 2020 1:56:55 GMT
Hey guys, made another video. Let me know if it looks better.
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Post by ray on Feb 28, 2020 2:06:31 GMT
Hey guys, made another video. Let me know if it looks better.
I only watched a couple of holes, youāre fine dude. Not sure what theyāre saying over at TGC but here I think itās about intent, and you seem to be trying to hit it straight which is good enough for me š |
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Post by unclevirt on Feb 28, 2020 2:26:04 GMT
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Post by GW_Hope on Feb 29, 2020 2:57:31 GMT
I hate the fact that players are getting attacked over this. This is an HB issue and I wish people would post even half the amount they post on TGCT and here. I know they are not very helpful but this issue is bigger than taking away Augusta name but that had many pages of complaints.
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Post by ray on Feb 29, 2020 5:05:56 GMT
Sadly I think that horse has bolted. Iām having a philosophical kinda week, if thereās nothing I can do about it Iām not letting it bother me. I can understand it being a bigger issue at TGCT because they have so many people and some of them are inclined to exploit an exploit when they hear about it - for whatever reason. Here I think we are a little beyond caring about our place on the leaderboard. Each of us has good and bad weeks. Some of us play better than others.
Just like a real golf club. š
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Post by andersnm on Feb 29, 2020 6:10:08 GMT
I have taken a closer look at Materalizations post over at TGC tours forum - and I can say I am not convinced at all. He claims there is more dispersion on his swing lines on his push shots - but that is nothing I can see. This test is prone to false conclusion because there is no numbers of how the line goes in and out. I think most here get this wrong because the lines isn't straight, and it looks as though misses outside has less penalty, but in fact there is points along the line that is more to the center.
I think there is a misunderstanding here, and that comes from the fact that the game computes an average on the swing line on points along that line. So in the case of some of the lines that appears to be more to the right on this test - he starts the line towards the center - making the miss less because of this fact. If anyone has watched the video of my crooked swing lines, I have a tendency to do just this, so this is no surprise to me.
When Craig at HB, who knows the code - say that the points inside the blue bar has less penalty than points outside, I have a hard time believing he is lying. People may wish that the swing line had more impact on accuracy, and that tempo don't - but that is another debate. People may wish that they didn't compute points along the line, but just had the last bit - but then again - that is not how they choose to have it. We can zig-zag the swing line, and still get a straight shot. Like it or not.
And to be frank - I don't care what they do on the TGC tours - but I find this policing stuff on this matter to be rather ridiculous. Because they are doing it on quite bad evidence.
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booze
Full Member
Posts: 213
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Post by booze on Feb 29, 2020 7:02:43 GMT
No problem! It was kinda fun, in a āhow the hell is this even workingā sense lol. It really just boiled down to aim. The swing itself took little effort, only enough to avoid getting an unwanted fast. It would always at least be in the ballpark of what I was trying for, and thatās all it takes with this. Can you please explain EXACTLY what you did on the stick? 7 o'clock to 1 o'clock in a straight line, full swing? Hey Leon, sorry I havenāt been back to this forum since I posted. What I did, was pull back diagonally towards the bottom right, then sort of push up and to the right. That was what was in my mind, at least. My swing line seems to swoop towards the center at the middle and then go back out , but there was no intent to do so. This was just a mindless swing, it really didnāt take any concentration at all other than making sure I didnāt go too fast. When I play normally, I tend to sometimes take multiple pre- shot half attempts out of just being nervous, doing this however, was just whatever. There wasnāt much skill honestly, except for the actual aiming part. Obviously, that does take some thought. I felt like if I aimed it correct though, it didnāt really matter how I swung as long as the swing went to the right side and wasnāt a fast. Larger margin for error than when shooting straight down/ up , thatās the issue for me. Attempt a straight shot at a hole and miss some at the top?Youāre gonna be way off. Play for a push shot and miss your intended swing line? Barring a complete disaster, youll still be pretty close. I wanted to fool around with it some more, but I got nervous about messing my acrual swing up lol. |
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booze
Full Member
Posts: 213
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Post by booze on Feb 29, 2020 8:00:03 GMT
Hey guys, made another video. Let me know if it looks better.
Youāre fine Virt! I donāt think anyone thinks youāre a cheater, I certainly donāt at least. Most people didnāt know the extent of the advantage playing an āoutside the coneā shot can have. I didnāt at all until lately. Iām no policeman, but in my book as long as you are honestly attempting to swing straight, thatās all that matters to me. The actual result of the swing doesnāt matter, just your intent! Like with my swing here for example, there would obviously be a difference had I aimed straight at the hole (if there was no wind) and did that by accident, vs aiming left with the intent of doing it. So I wouldnāt get wrapped up in if your swings are going right if you arenāt even trying for it. Hell I get those all the time, usually resulting in a leg smack and wanting to throw my controller lol. But then Iāll shoot some dead straight, then Iāll mix a pull in. Frustrating, but hey thatās the fun! (I think?!) I definitely like competing with you here regardless, I do think you are an honest player. |
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Post by ray on Feb 29, 2020 9:13:23 GMT
One thing - itās kinda a first world problem. It relies on perfect tempo. If I had that with my swing lines Iād be back in the top 30 WGR over at that place Iām happily banned from talking about things. Like following rules for selection in rep events, and Ron being a Knobhead.
I get what Anders is saying re it being an average of the total swing. I hadnāt really thought much about it (being straight most of the time) but in the videos Iāve seen it seems like ābad swingsā (the ones that zig zag a bit and donāt hit the stripe for much of the swing) seem to take a point from the average of the bottom half of the swing, then a point for average for the top half of the swing and the shot looks the same as if you had a straight line from the bottom point to the top point.
I think where the exploit comes in is when you deliberately swing bad. It makes the points the game is taking the lines from (at the bottom and top) more predictable. I imagine it would take a short time on the practice fairway to dial it in.
Me, I just play the game the way I think itās meant to be played. If I need a flop to stop I add loft. I have no idea how the deliberately slow backswings affect shots because it never occurred to me to try it?
Iām not one of those people that enter a conversation and tell people enough has been said - itās a red rag to a bull to me, but I donāt see where weāre going with this when weāre agreed none of are the types to do it deliberately. If any of us exploit itās likely weāll be found out quickly and excluded.
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Post by LKeet6 on Feb 29, 2020 10:24:02 GMT
Can you please explain EXACTLY what you did on the stick? 7 o'clock to 1 o'clock in a straight line, full swing? Hey Leon, sorry I havenāt been back to this forum since I posted. What I did, was pull back diagonally towards the bottom right, then sort of push up and to the right. That was what was in my mind, at least. My swing line seems to swoop towards the center at the middle and then go back out , but there was no intent to do so. This was just a mindless swing, it really didnāt take any concentration at all other than making sure I didnāt go too fast. When I play normally, I tend to sometimes take multiple pre- shot half attempts out of just being nervous, doing this however, was just whatever. There wasnāt much skill honestly, except for the actual aiming part. Obviously, that does take some thought. I felt like if I aimed it correct though, it didnāt really matter how I swung as long as the swing Ā went to the right side and wasnāt a fast. Larger margin for error than when shooting straight down/ up ,Ā thatās the issue for me. Attempt a straight shot at a hole and miss some at the top?Youāre gonna be way off. Play for a push shot and miss your intended swing line? Barring a complete disaster, youll still be pretty close. I wanted to fool around with it some more, but I got nervous about messing my acrual swing up lol. Great, thanks mate  Ok, so to me, that sounds more deliberate and exaggerated than someone who has a little hitch in their swing (which I said earlier I do sometimes.) A very deliberate attempt to start diagonally down. I'm sure some people might accidentally, or through force of habit, have that a BIT in their swing, but that is also something that could be changed over time, as I believe virt is trying to do. I'm hoping this means deliberate has more of an advantage than accidental, because I really want to separate those two groups of people. I'm constantly reminding myself that everyone has a different swing. We probably do just need to move on from the whole thing, with the knowledge that in this society we all TRY to swing straight... |
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Post by LKeet6 on Feb 29, 2020 10:27:03 GMT
One thing - itās kinda a first world problem. It relies on perfect tempo. If I had that with my swing lines Iād be back in the top 30 WGR over at that place Iām happily banned from talking about things. Like following rules for selection in rep events, and Ron being a Knobhead. I get what Anders is saying re it being an average of the total swing. I hadnāt really thought much about it (being straight most of the time) but in the videos Iāve seen it seems like ābad swingsā (the ones that zig zag a bit and donāt hit the stripe for much of the swing) seem to take a point from the average of the bottom half of the swing, then a point for average for the top half of the swing and the shot looks the same as if you had a straight line from the bottom point to the top point. I think where the exploit comes in is when you deliberately swing bad. It makes the points the game is taking the lines from (at the bottom and top) more predictable. I imagine it would take a short time on the practice fairway to dial it in. Me, I just play the game the way I think itās meant to be played. If I need a flop to stop I add loft. I have no idea how the deliberately slow backswings affect shots because it never occurred to me to try it? Iām not one of those people that enter a conversation and tell people enough has been said - itās a red rag to a bull to me, but I donāt see where weāre going with this when weāre agreed none of are the types to do it deliberately. If any of us exploit itās likely weāll be found out quickly and excluded. Great post ray. I think we HAD all moved on, but booze hasn't been around for a while, and people had asked him stuff. I feel we're close to being done on the subject now though |
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Post by ray on Feb 29, 2020 14:30:54 GMT
Just to clarify, I donāt use loft on flops in this society, I use a partial swing and hope for the best š
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Post by andersnm on Feb 29, 2020 14:50:16 GMT
I think where the exploit comes in is when you deliberately swing bad. It makes the points the game is taking the lines from (at the bottom and top) more predictable. I imagine it would take a short time on the practice fairway to dial it in. How can a deliberately bad swing be an exploit!? How on earth do you think to control a bad swing? The best guys that shows this is perhaps unclevirt and z3nz. And you will see a very consistent swing with very little zig-zag. Z3enz even has his normal shot inside the blue bar all the way. How is that an exploit? Isn't that skill? To have the same swing over and over again with the same result. If you swing deliberately very bad - you are subject to luck. And that my friend - is not a way to be good. I know what I talk about - because I can have quite large differences in my swing line, and it is not good for me. I am happy with all shots within 15 feet of the pin. The usual big misses are with tempo - but still I miss greens with my swing line - even though I compensate for it. If this was to be such an advantage that is claimed over at TGC tours - I should dart every pin. |
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Post by artvandelay on Feb 29, 2020 15:39:32 GMT
Just to clarify, I donāt use loft on flops in this society, I use a partial swing and hope for the best š I don't use the loft box PERIOD! Gave that up long ago just for ease of use (see what I did there?). Just lends a bit of realism and strategy to play IMO. Onward. |
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