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Post by jeff on Oct 7, 2020 13:24:02 GMT
I figure this deserves its own thread.
Some are saying that deliberately hitting a fast tempo on every shot is an exploit and shouldn’t be allowed.
HBCraig says the amount of dispersion for hitting “Fast” is much harder to control than the dispersion around “Perfect”, so HB doesn’t care.
I cannot consistently swing anywhere near Perfect, even after several calibrations. If I can get 50% Perfect tempo swings, it’s an accomplishment for me.
A “Slow” punishes you way out of proportion to how much a “Fast” punishes you, so it must be avoided at all costs.
I am more consistent by swinging fast, but I am not 100% consistent. Will this swing be just a little fast? A lot fast? Very Fast? Better be sure because there’s water down the left! And when I play for a Fast and get a Slow instead, I’m lucky to escape with a bogey.
A deliberately fast swing is available to anyone on any platform to try out and see how it works for them.
So how does a deliberate Fast compare to IRL? Does the PGA force everyone to swing like Jim Furyk? Should Bubba’s swing be banned? If you have a natural shape to your shot do you and your coach work with that, or does he force you to work against what your body can do or wants to do?
Thoughts?
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Post by nonusehki on Oct 7, 2020 14:20:04 GMT
IMHO the swing mechanics in the game are fine the way they are right now, apart from the curvature in short shots. I very rarely do play for a perfectly straight shot in real life (unless I have a short shot with a wedge) and I play the same way in the game, as I find a straight shot is so much harder to do consistently. Same way I play for a fast in game like I play for a draw in real life, I just find it easier to do naturally. I still use a deliberate slow (fade), but only if I really have to or the shot calls for it. It removes a bit of distance, but is still very usable as long as the shot doesn't turn out to be very slow.
I still get the occasional double cross (going for a slow but getting a fast, very rarely the other way around), but those shots happen also in real life and that's fine.
I also saw the same post from HBCraig saying hitting it fast gives you greater dispersion vs perfect shots, and I find it odd that people regard fast shots as an exploit. "Mathematically" you're better off playing for a perfect shot every time, if anything the fast shot punishes you. I just find it is good course management to keep another side off the play and playing for a curved shot. Aiming for the right side of the fairway and hitting a straight shot, you're fine... hitting a fast draw, you're perfect... hitting a very fast, might get lucky and hit the left side of the fairway...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2020 14:21:55 GMT
I figure this deserves its own thread. Some are saying that deliberately hitting a fast tempo on every shot is an exploit and shouldn’t be allowed. HBCraig says the amount of dispersion for hitting “Fast” is much harder to control than the dispersion around “Perfect”, so HB doesn’t care. I cannot consistently swing anywhere near Perfect, even after several calibrations. If I can get 50% Perfect tempo swings, it’s an accomplishment for me. A “Slow” punishes you way out of proportion to how much a “Fast” punishes you, so it must be avoided at all costs. I am more consistent by swinging fast, but I am not 100% consistent. Will this swing be just a little fast? A lot fast? Very Fast? Better be sure because there’s water down the left! And when I play for a Fast and get a Slow instead, I’m lucky to escape with a bogey. A deliberately fast swing is available to anyone on any platform to try out and see how it works for them. So how does a deliberate Fast compare to IRL? Does the PGA force everyone to swing like Jim Furyk? Should Bubba’s swing be banned? If you have a natural shape to your shot do you and your coach work with that, or does he force you to work against what your body can do or wants to do? Thoughts? Would this be any different than playing a splash shot or a flop shot from anywhere within distance? Phil Mickelson would do it. Another new game and another set of circumstances. Why don't we just set the Master difficulty to default and we all play the game the way we see fit? We all want realism with this game but I'm just not seeing it right now. I think the game is hard enough for us to handicap ourselves with too many rules. Btw Jeff, I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with you. If you have 15 minutes you should watch the video below if you haven't already. It's another person's take on Fast Swing usage. I believe Respawn plays on the Elite Tour but I'm not sure. Paul has a tough job trying to please the entire community and I'm sure I'm not helping him lol. Just my $.02 worth. |
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Post by jeff on Oct 7, 2020 15:09:43 GMT
I figure this deserves its own thread. Some are saying that deliberately hitting a fast tempo on every shot is an exploit and shouldn’t be allowed. HBCraig says the amount of dispersion for hitting “Fast” is much harder to control than the dispersion around “Perfect”, so HB doesn’t care. I cannot consistently swing anywhere near Perfect, even after several calibrations. If I can get 50% Perfect tempo swings, it’s an accomplishment for me. A “Slow” punishes you way out of proportion to how much a “Fast” punishes you, so it must be avoided at all costs. I am more consistent by swinging fast, but I am not 100% consistent. Will this swing be just a little fast? A lot fast? Very Fast? Better be sure because there’s water down the left! And when I play for a Fast and get a Slow instead, I’m lucky to escape with a bogey. A deliberately fast swing is available to anyone on any platform to try out and see how it works for them. So how does a deliberate Fast compare to IRL? Does the PGA force everyone to swing like Jim Furyk? Should Bubba’s swing be banned? If you have a natural shape to your shot do you and your coach work with that, or does he force you to work against what your body can do or wants to do? Thoughts? Would this be any different than playing a splash shot or a flop shot from anywhere within distance? Phil Mickelson would do it. Another new game and another set of circumstances. Why don't we just set the Master difficulty to default and we all play the game the way we see fit? We all want realism with this game but I'm just not seeing it right now. I think the game is hard enough for us to handicap ourselves with too many rules. Btw Jeff, I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with you. If you have 15 minutes you should watch the video below if you haven't already. It's another person's take on Fast Swing usage. I believe Respawn plays on the Elite Tour but I'm not sure. Paul has a tough job trying to please the entire community and I'm sure I'm not helping him lol. Just my $.02 worth. I did watch that video and Respawn had some good points. He also can hit Perfects way more than me.  I think a rule simplification that only bans chipping out of bunkers might work, but even that may be less of an issue in 2k21. I haven't tried chipping out of a bunker yet in 2k21, so I can't say if it's easier than the splash or not. If it's not, then chipping out of a bunker kind of rules itself out. FWIW, I'm getting a lot better at partial pitches because that's the shot I practice the most. My success rate is probably approaching something close to what the pros get around the green using various shot techniques, so I will keep at it. I can count the number of times I've tried a flop shot in 2k21 on one hand. They are much harder to pull off now compared to TGC2019. |
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Post by hammers1man on Oct 7, 2020 15:13:21 GMT
IMHO the swing mechanics in the game are fine the way they are right now, apart from the curvature in short shots. I very rarely do play for a perfectly straight shot in real life (unless I have a short shot with a wedge) and I play the same way in the game, as I find a straight shot is so much harder to do consistently. Same way I play for a fast in game like I play for a draw in real life, I just find it easier to do naturally. I still use a deliberate slow (fade), but only if I really have to or the shot calls for it. It removes a bit of distance, but is still very usable as long as the shot doesn't turn out to be very slow. I still get the occasional double cross (going for a slow but getting a fast, very rarely the other way around), but those shots happen also in real life and that's fine. I also saw the same post from HBCraig saying hitting it fast gives you greater dispersion vs perfect shots, and I find it odd that people regard fast shots as an exploit. "Mathematically" you're better off playing for a perfect shot every time, if anything the fast shot punishes you. I just find it is good course management to keep another side off the play and playing for a curved shot. Aiming for the right side of the fairway and hitting a straight shot, you're fine... hitting a fast draw, you're perfect... hitting a very fast, might get lucky and hit the left side of the fairway... Irl I hit a natural draw, the ball starts off to the right and curves back to the target. Playing a fast with a straight swing plane in the game is a hook because the ball starts straight then curves away from the target, same for playing for a slow with a straight swing plane is hitting a slice. I try to play the game as realistically as possible and aiming into the right rough to intentionally play my unintentional real life bad shot does not feel realistic to me. Yes maybe play the hook on a big dogleg but for every drive or even every shot, really?. The game's true shot actually produces a nice strong draw if you move the marker right about a third. Not aimed at anyone but just my take on playing a fast. |
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Post by hammers1man on Oct 7, 2020 15:32:36 GMT
Would this be any different than playing a splash shot or a flop shot from anywhere within distance? Phil Mickelson would do it. Another new game and another set of circumstances. Why don't we just set the Master difficulty to default and we all play the game the way we see fit? We all want realism with this game but I'm just not seeing it right now. I think the game is hard enough for us to handicap ourselves with too many rules. Btw Jeff, I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with you. If you have 15 minutes you should watch the video below if you haven't already. It's another person's take on Fast Swing usage. I believe Respawn plays on the Elite Tour but I'm not sure. Paul has a tough job trying to please the entire community and I'm sure I'm not helping him lol. Just my $.02 worth. I did watch that video and Respawn had some good points. He also can hit Perfects way more than me. I think a rule simplification that only bans chipping out of bunkers might work, but even that may be less of an issue in 2k21. I haven't tried chipping out of a bunker yet in 2k21, so I can't say if it's easier than the splash or not. If it's not, then chipping out of a bunker kind of rules itself out. FWIW, I'm getting a lot better at partial pitches because that's the shot I practice the most. My success rate is probably approaching something close to what the pros get around the green using various shot techniques, so I will keep at it. I can count the number of times I've tried a flop shot in 2k21 on one hand. They are much harder to pull off now compared to TGC2019. One of the main reasons the splash was banned is because it produces way too much spin and bite out of heavy rough especially with LW. It is way overpowered, nearly takes the use of partials out of the bag from under 35 yards as you have different clubs for different distances for a shot that you open the clubface to get more height. If HB tweak it to make it more difficult I would happily have it back as it gives more shot types around the green. |
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Leon
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Post by Leon on Oct 7, 2020 15:45:13 GMT
I'm not going to lay out my whole thing on this because it was covered ad nauseum on the tgct forum.
But I will say it's true that there's more dispersion; much more. However, the advantage is of course knowing which way it will go. It's quite rare to go massively left. So I'd say the advantage is bigger than the risk. Something HB refuses to consider. They're not taking into account the deliberately playing for it AND adjusting your aim. They're just talking about the mechanic itself. That guy is so f'ing obstinate.
There's nothing you can do to police it. I'm not bothered about others doing it. I'd say going to the extremes is really unrealistic and people "should" try not to do that. But it's up to everyone on their own to decide what's right for them, in my opinion.
I agree with Wade's "game is hard enough" point. People who can play perfect have an advantage over those who play for fasts, so it's more of a method to control the swing for medium/lower players, like most of us are.
Or maybe there's elite players using it to go even better. I dunno.
Ok, I did end up saying a bit! Sorry...
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Post by paddyjk19 on Oct 7, 2020 16:43:48 GMT
Couple of points;
IRL at the moment I’m struggling with a hook so I aim right of target and play with it because I’m just trying to get round the course in one piece (much like I am in USE and struggling to!)
I understand Paul and other anti-faster’s points completely and if HB do make fasts and slows more random like Doyley had suggested then that’s great, I’m all for it.
Currently I play for both fasts and slows with my longer clubs and shape the ball this way, much like I did in USE in 2019, I’ve not changed my method and my scoring is worse!
If I have water on the right I aim left and slow cut it back to fairway, if I double cross in dry, if I slow I’m perfect - this is a percentage play. Aiming straight with the potential to hit a hook, a straight, or a fade makes no sense to me as an ex tournament professional so I play this as I would IRL, I aim away from trouble and shape it towards it.
5 iron down I’m trying to hit perfects unless I’ve got water or OB around the greens or a pin is tucked and I’m between clubs, then I use speed of swing to add or subtract a little distance. I see this as a skill, not an exploit.
The tempo is too penal on pitch shots so I use the most forgiving wedges and I’m pretty good now and setting up chances, if you are struggling I’d suggest trying forgiving wedges and practicing your arse off!
Until I see scores regularly better than 65 on this tour (except Sloany who is very good already) I’m happy with what we have, it’s a challenge and I know that first time I break 70 is going to be a great feeling
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Post by hammers1man on Oct 7, 2020 18:39:48 GMT
Couple of points; IRL at the moment I’m struggling with a hook so I aim right of target and play with it because I’m just trying to get round the course in one piece (much like I am in USE and struggling to!) I understand Paul and other anti-faster’s points completely and if HB do make fasts and slows more random like Doyley had suggested then that’s great, I’m all for it. Currently I play for both fasts and slows with my longer clubs and shape the ball this way, much like I did in USE in 2019, I’ve not changed my method and my scoring is worse! If I have water on the right I aim left and slow cut it back to fairway, if I double cross in dry, if I slow I’m perfect - this is a percentage play. Aiming straight with the potential to hit a hook, a straight, or a fade makes no sense to me as an ex tournament professional so I play this as I would IRL, I aim away from trouble and shape it towards it. 5 iron down I’m trying to hit perfects unless I’ve got water or OB around the greens or a pin is tucked and I’m between clubs, then I use speed of swing to add or subtract a little distance. I see this as a skill, not an exploit. The tempo is too penal on pitch shots so I use the most forgiving wedges and I’m pretty good now and setting up chances, if you are struggling I’d suggest trying forgiving wedges and practicing your arse off! Until I see scores regularly better than 65 on this tour (except Sloany who is very good already) I’m happy with what we have, it’s a challenge and I know that first time I break 70 is going to be a great feeling You might sooner than you think Paddy as the putting is easier now . I just hole 51,32 and 22 foot putts in a practice round. The short putting is much easier as the quick motion also makes it much easier to not push and pull putts. Good news for USE as hopefully it might bring scores down here. I have been playing the game for an hour and have never holed so many putts from all distances in this game, just took a bit of time to get the feel for distance with my new putting stroke. I suggest everyone should hit the putting green and resort back to your TGC2019 putting stroke. |
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Post by paddyjk19 on Oct 7, 2020 18:44:42 GMT
See that's weird, I played this morning and just assumed we had the greens on really slow - couldn't hole a thing and parred the first 9 holes after hitting all in regulation, I then had a massive blow up on the back nine but we won't talk about that! hahah
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Post by hammers1man on Oct 7, 2020 18:48:02 GMT
See that's weird, I played this morning and just assumed we had the greens on really slow - couldn't hole a thing and parred the first 9 holes after hitting all in regulation, I then had a massive blow up on the back nine but we won't talk about that! hahah I was the opposite hit the putting green and am overhitting every putt, didn't take long to relearn and getting the feel back. I can be a bit more aggressive now. Watch the medium and long putts stats drop. |
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Post by hammers1man on Oct 7, 2020 18:57:09 GMT
Just holed a breaking 98 footer on the putting green  |
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Post by paddyjk19 on Oct 7, 2020 19:07:20 GMT
I really like the twitchy putting as well, felt real!
What a shame
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Post by hammers1man on Oct 7, 2020 19:13:04 GMT
I really like the twitchy putting as well, felt real! What a shame Still tougher than TGC2019 but easier to not push and pull putts and I found that part harder than real life. I can concentrate more on line now. |
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Leon
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Post by Leon on Oct 8, 2020 10:14:36 GMT
The tempo is too penal on pitch shots so I use the most forgiving wedges and I’m pretty good now and setting up chances, if you are struggling I’d suggest trying forgiving wedges and practicing your arse off! I'm putting the more forgiving wedges (and maybe 9I, even 8I) in my bag, which means I need to change the rest of my bag, for distance reasons. I want to get rid of my 3W and only have 5W in there, and then I'm sure I've seen people say they have two of the same club, in my case it might be 7I. But it's not letting me do it! When I select my 5W and try to change it for a 7I, it's just swapping my 7I. Am I being stupid?? |
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