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Post by jeff on Sept 1, 2020 20:19:26 GMT
I see your point, Paul, but I don’t think even 10 yards off line is acceptable for a tempo mistake. And very rarely in my experience has what I see on the range ever translated accurately into actual gameplay on the course. I’ve disagreed and moaned more than once to HB about the tempo affecting shots the way they do. A slow/fast downswing should merely take distance off/add distance to your shot. Anything left or right should be determined by your swing path. They said it’s as designed and mimics real life. I had to put up with it in TGC2019. I don’t have to put up with it any more. So I *am* grateful to HB for at least giving me that option. This video proves that the wedge play is not too penal or offline from even outside the tempo box Jeff, not that hard to hit wedges with a bit of practice. I'm trying to work on hitting 95% for my clubs as I hit good tempo at that distance, now if you're not getting even close to the box it should be penalised as it's a bad shot. Thanks for the video, Paul. Oddly enough, I get my best tempo somewhere between 103%-105%. Anything else, including deliberate partial swings, and I really move toward fast. I do get the occasional slow, usually at the worst possible time. If I could consistently force a slow or fast, I could compensate with draw, fade or offset aim. But I can't. I suspect there are some random tempo variations thrown in regardless of the actual tempo of your swing, and at least one PC user has provided data to prove it. But that's a discussion for another day.... And I don't swing straight consistently, either. I get banana swing paths from 5:30 to 12:30, coat hangar swing paths that start right on the backswing and curl up and left on the downswing, and a crooked stick wobble even on my straightest shots. I can count on one hand the number of times during a round that my swing path actually draws a nice, straight path between 6 o'clock and 12 o'clock like you showed in the video. That goes for putting as well. For fun, y'all should try putting on Legend.  Three and four foot putts become an adventure. (Which I suppose is how it should be.) |
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Post by hammers1man on Sept 1, 2020 20:28:15 GMT
This video proves that the wedge play is not too penal or offline from even outside the tempo box Jeff, not that hard to hit wedges with a bit of practice. I'm trying to work on hitting 95% for my clubs as I hit good tempo at that distance, now if you're not getting even close to the box it should be penalised as it's a bad shot. Thanks for the video, Paul. Oddly enough, I get my best tempo somewhere between 103%-105%. Anything else, including deliberate partial swings, and I really move toward fast. I do get the occasional slow, usually at the worst possible time. If I could consistently force a slow or fast, I could compensate with draw, fade or offset aim. But I can't. I suspect there are some random tempo variations thrown in regardless of the actual tempo of your swing, and at least one PC user has provided data to prove it. But that's a discussion for another day.... And I don't swing straight consistently, either. I get banana swing paths from 5:30 to 12:30, coat hangar swing paths that start right on the backswing and curl up and left on the downswing, and a crooked stick wobble even on my straightest shots. I can count on one hand the number of times during a round that my swing path actually draws a nice, straight path between 6 o'clock and 12 o'clock like you showed in the video. That goes for putting as well. For fun, y'all should try putting on Legend. Three and four foot putts become an adventure. (Which I suppose is how it should be.) You need to practise hitting under 100 as overswing is really penal on tempo, for 2 weeks I hit nothing but 101% so most shots weren't great. My tempo is improving all the time, a 91 % driver was still hitting over 300 yards but much easier for me to hit the tempo. You learn your own swing in this game and it takes time, unlike TGC2019 I am really enjoying my practice rounds. |
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Post by al on Sept 1, 2020 20:35:28 GMT
The wheels were falling off towards the end, stuck behind a rock after a hooked 3 wood, missed the rock but had to purposely hit a very fast hook to get round it, bounced on a few rocks near the shore and ended up on the green. Then putted off the green as was 2 or 3 feet above the hole, then chipped in for par.
+4 is the best I’ve done yet on any difficulty 😀
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Post by jeff on Sept 1, 2020 20:44:16 GMT
I see your point, Paul, but I don’t think even 10 yards off line is acceptable for a tempo mistake. And very rarely in my experience has what I see on the range ever translated accurately into actual gameplay on the course. I’ve disagreed and moaned more than once to HB about the tempo affecting shots the way they do. A slow/fast downswing should merely take distance off/add distance to your shot. Anything left or right should be determined by your swing path. They said it’s as designed and mimics real life. I had to put up with it in TGC2019. I don’t have to put up with it any more. So I *am* grateful to HB for at least giving me that option. Jeff - the reason why HB has decided to punish tempo more than swingline - is because tempo is much harder to cheat than swingline. I like this, because in every golf game, getting unrealistic driving stats has always been a problem. Once we get some stats out from our USE tournaments, I think we will be much closer to real life stats on fairway % and GIR. If swingpath was the key thing - I would have no problem hitting every fairway in this game. I am very rarely out of the white line on the swing path - and if you've seen the best players, the swing path is always straight with the controller - and very consistent. Getting consistent tempo is much harder. And it is very good that HB has given us such flexibility and custmoization on both the difficulties - but also from aids etc. I think it is quite okay to discuss how realistic the implementation is, but for me - swinging a golf club with a controller will never be realistic. So I do not mind actually how this is too much. I know many will feel much more like swinging a club when you need to get the right tempo. Some have said that when the tempo sits, they almost can feel the ball compression. I don't know if I am right there in the immersion - but I do not feel this is a bad implementation for me. And missing tempo will indeed make you hit open or closed in real life, thus missing your line. Amount of draw or fade is depended on your swingpath relating to clubface on impact. Inside-out path, and an open face will create more of a push, while an outside-in with an open face creates a big slice. HB has decided that miss in tempo is not to target, but swingpath - so a fast or slow will always produce a draw or fade. Unfortunately, they have made the fast go futher, while in reality - hook misses also reduce distance. All sidespin reduce distance. Hi Anders. I understand about the anti-cheat. But for a guy that can't consistently swing ruler straight normally, the added dispersion from tempo errors is beyond frustrating. After I put in as many hours playing as you do designing (thank you!) I may feel differently and be comfortable with how the controller feels in my hands compared to what I see on-screen. It happened with TGC2019 and it will happen here. But I am concerned that Master and Legend difficulties with swing timing on are simply beyond my hand-eye coordination abilities no matter how much I play. The default Pro setting is already pushing me into round after round of double-digit, over par golf. With Legend difficulty and swing tempo off, I'm 5 to 8 shots worse per round than TGC2019 and I struggle to break par. That is a satisfying challenge to me and a reasonable place to start getting better. My notes on the new putting physics: I'm 3-putting more, I'm missing 4, 5 and 6 foot putts with alarming regularity, and I'm leaving 20 and 30 foot putts 8 feet short or throwing them 14 feet past the hole. But oh my gosh, when that 22 foot birdie putt or 51 foot eagle putt drops it is something special (I have done both). I think the ball movement is better and I can read the putts better with the improved graphics and resolution. I just can't hit line and pace together very often. Putting is the most realistic sim aspect of the new game for me. Another sidebar: Is there a poll for forcing Pro, Master or Open swing difficulty settings? |
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Post by hammers1man on Sept 1, 2020 20:46:03 GMT
The wheels were falling off towards the end, stuck behind a rock after a hooked 3 wood, missed the rock but had to purposely hit a very fast hook to get round it, bounced on a few rocks near the shore and ended up on the green. Then putted off the green as was 2 or 3 feet above the hole, then chipped in for par. +4 is the best I’ve done yet on any difficulty 😀 👏 Well played Al |
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Post by jeff on Sept 1, 2020 20:46:57 GMT
Thanks for the video, Paul. Oddly enough, I get my best tempo somewhere between 103%-105%. Anything else, including deliberate partial swings, and I really move toward fast. I do get the occasional slow, usually at the worst possible time. If I could consistently force a slow or fast, I could compensate with draw, fade or offset aim. But I can't. I suspect there are some random tempo variations thrown in regardless of the actual tempo of your swing, and at least one PC user has provided data to prove it. But that's a discussion for another day.... And I don't swing straight consistently, either. I get banana swing paths from 5:30 to 12:30, coat hangar swing paths that start right on the backswing and curl up and left on the downswing, and a crooked stick wobble even on my straightest shots. I can count on one hand the number of times during a round that my swing path actually draws a nice, straight path between 6 o'clock and 12 o'clock like you showed in the video. That goes for putting as well. For fun, y'all should try putting on Legend. Three and four foot putts become an adventure. (Which I suppose is how it should be.) You learn your own swing in this game and it takes time, unlike TGC2019 I am really enjoying my practice rounds. I didn't know that. I'll book the range. |
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Post by andersnm on Sept 1, 2020 21:25:48 GMT
Jeff - the reason why HB has decided to punish tempo more than swingline - is because tempo is much harder to cheat than swingline. I like this, because in every golf game, getting unrealistic driving stats has always been a problem. Once we get some stats out from our USE tournaments, I think we will be much closer to real life stats on fairway % and GIR. If swingpath was the key thing - I would have no problem hitting every fairway in this game. I am very rarely out of the white line on the swing path - and if you've seen the best players, the swing path is always straight with the controller - and very consistent. Getting consistent tempo is much harder. And it is very good that HB has given us such flexibility and custmoization on both the difficulties - but also from aids etc. I think it is quite okay to discuss how realistic the implementation is, but for me - swinging a golf club with a controller will never be realistic. So I do not mind actually how this is too much. I know many will feel much more like swinging a club when you need to get the right tempo. Some have said that when the tempo sits, they almost can feel the ball compression. I don't know if I am right there in the immersion - but I do not feel this is a bad implementation for me. And missing tempo will indeed make you hit open or closed in real life, thus missing your line. Amount of draw or fade is depended on your swingpath relating to clubface on impact. Inside-out path, and an open face will create more of a push, while an outside-in with an open face creates a big slice. HB has decided that miss in tempo is not to target, but swingpath - so a fast or slow will always produce a draw or fade. Unfortunately, they have made the fast go futher, while in reality - hook misses also reduce distance. All sidespin reduce distance. Hi Anders. I understand about the anti-cheat. But for a guy that can't consistently swing ruler straight normally, the added dispersion from tempo errors is beyond frustrating. After I put in as many hours playing as you do designing (thank you!) I may feel differently and be comfortable with how the controller feels in my hands compared to what I see on-screen. It happened with TGC2019 and it will happen here. But I am concerned that Master and Legend difficulties with swing timing on are simply beyond my hand-eye coordination abilities no matter how much I play. The default Pro setting is already pushing me into round after round of double-digit, over par golf. With Legend difficulty and swing tempo off, I'm 5 to 8 shots worse per round than TGC2019 and I struggle to break par. That is a satisfying challenge to me and a reasonable place to start getting better. My notes on the new putting physics: I'm 3-putting more, I'm missing 4, 5 and 6 foot putts with alarming regularity, and I'm leaving 20 and 30 foot putts 8 feet short or throwing them 14 feet past the hole. But oh my gosh, when that 22 foot birdie putt or 51 foot eagle putt drops it is something special (I have done both). I think the ball movement is better and I can read the putts better with the improved graphics and resolution. I just can't hit line and pace together very often. Putting is the most realistic sim aspect of the new game for me. Another sidebar: Is there a poll for forcing Pro, Master or Open swing difficulty settings? I can tell you Jeff - I started in this game on Legend difficulty - so yes, I know putting on that difficulty, though I do not find it much harder on legend compared to master - and the reason for that is my swingline is pretty straight. My struggle on putting are not line usualy (though I have had the occasional pull on short putts), but speed. Sometimes I just hit it too soft - but I spent an hour on some practice yesterday, range, pitching/chipping and putting - and that is actually good to improve in the game. Anyway - I think if you find a setting that you like that will improve your game - go for it! But, setting swing timing off, I would think it would be hard to get better at tempo? For my single player career, I've had to lower the difficulty in order to compete - though this is a game mode I'll not spend much time in anyway - just thought I would try to unlock some things, but I reckon I have to play some fantasy courses I really don't like - and, after I have played some of the official courses - there are some errors I don't like, pin placements that is aweful etc. So I am actually thinking of porting over San Antonio and East Lake.. Are you asking for forcing difficulty settings in USE? Yes, we will set the same difficulty for everyone, and as it stands, it looks like it will be Master difficulty with swing timing on. Hope you want to struggle in our tournaments Jeff - because there will be lots of scores on the plus side |
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Post by jeff on Sept 1, 2020 22:05:15 GMT
Hi Anders,
I’m very willing to struggle and have requested membership in the society. I’m practicing on Master with USE mods, and after Paul’s advice about “partially” swinging for 100%, I’m -2 through 9 at Pat’s West Hill course. Even my big slows don’t wander as far off as they did at 105%. But I fully expect the wheels to come off the wagon on the back nine.... 😂😂
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Post by mcbogga on Sept 1, 2020 22:48:36 GMT
Yep, seems like overswing really adds a lot of penalty to tempo misses. Only annoying part of it is that my natural transition is at 101%. Going for 100% just feels rushed. I’d say that backswing tempo is still a thing since it’s virtually impossible to nail the forward tempo consistently at 100% without a specific backswing tempo. Possibly just learning curve.
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Post by paddyjk19 on Sept 1, 2020 23:04:31 GMT
I’ve certainly found the swing shorter and brisker than the last game, same with putting.
I think trying to pull back slow for long swing or putting is detrimental. My back swing is quick and so is my downswing with a quick change of direction and I’m hitting it pretty solid. I’ve also gone for shorter more forgiving clubs Jeff, not sure if that might help you too?
I’ve nearly cracked it now but I’ve been practising loads.
Faster swing is definitely better Jeff so give that a whirl and aim for 95% power with no pause when changing direction.
You’ll get it nailed soon mate!
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Post by mcbogga on Sept 1, 2020 23:14:41 GMT
It’s just a bit counterintuitive as a jerky transition in real golf usually yield the results I’m seeing in game using a smooth transition.
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Post by paddyjk19 on Sept 1, 2020 23:21:46 GMT
It’s just a bit counterintuitive as a jerky transition in real golf usually yield the results I’m seeing in game using a smooth transition. Totally agree, it’s not good for people with slower tempos whilst mine is real brisk in real life so it feels natural for me whilst others might have natural smoothness which the game doesn’t accommodate for. Would be better if they had a few tempos you could pick from in the game. (I don’t believe that swing calibration thing does anything much at all) |
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Post by jeff on Sept 1, 2020 23:25:06 GMT
I’ve certainly found the swing shorter and brisker than the last game, same with putting. I think trying to pull back slow for long swing or putting is detrimental. My back swing is quick and so is my downswing with a quick change of direction and I’m hitting it pretty solid. I’ve also gone for shorter more forgiving clubs Jeff, not sure if that might help you too? I’ve nearly cracked it now but I’ve been practising loads. Faster swing is definitely better Jeff so give that a whirl and aim for 95% power with no pause when changing direction. You’ll get it nailed soon mate! Club choice is a variable I’ve pushed in the direction of distance. Forgiveness is worth a look. But I need more coins to buy different clubs. My 2k21 Go Fund Me page is gotmoneyquestionmark.com/JeffIsReallyNiceAndNeedsCoins/ |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2020 23:41:54 GMT
I’ve certainly found the swing shorter and brisker than the last game, same with putting. I think trying to pull back slow for long swing or putting is detrimental. My back swing is quick and so is my downswing with a quick change of direction and I’m hitting it pretty solid. I’ve also gone for shorter more forgiving clubs Jeff, not sure if that might help you too? I’ve nearly cracked it now but I’ve been practising loads. Faster swing is definitely better Jeff so give that a whirl and aim for 95% power with no pause when changing direction. You’ll get it nailed soon mate! Club choice is a variable I’ve pushed in the direction of distance. Forgiveness is worth a look. But I need more coins to buy different clubs. My 2k21 Go Fund Me page is gotmoneyquestionmark.com/JeffIsReallyNiceAndNeedsCoins/Jeff, I'm in the exact same boat as you with the difficulty, swing and putting! 🤣 I posted a spreadsheet on clubs that I found on TGC Tours. You can filter it to find clubs with more forgiveness, better swing plane etc. I have been trying different clubs but mostly get the same results. Over par rounds lol. This game is rough on old folks. Here is the link ultra-sim-experience.proboards.com/thread/165/tour-2k21-club-breakdown-manual?page=1&scrollTo=6329 |
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Post by polekatt/josia on Sept 2, 2020 13:33:52 GMT
Couple things-
After the patch, where things lock for the society, everything seems to work for me EXCEPT the follow cam. I played last night and confirmed, new patch, after patch tournament, the follow cam is still on for me. Would love to know if it was left on for this tournament, or if its simply not working like they say it should.
As for the tempo, I am at that point were everything is still 101%. As someone said in another post, I can do my backswing, then turn three somersaults and jump up and down, and stand on my head, then complete my swing and it still does 101%. LOL But more seriously, when I try to do the quick swing to make it 95% or whatever, everything just goes haywire, because I am either getting very fast, very slow, and in combination, when I hit the ball that quick, I can't hit the controller straight up and down, so the ball ends up out of bounds or in the other fairway.
As far as club choice, I have been spending my coins on different versions of the same few clubs so far, before equipping the whole bag, to try to see what works best for me. So far forgiveness seems to be the big factor that helps me over the other three.
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Three and four foot putts become an adventure. (Which I suppose is how it should be.)
