|
|
Post by LKeet6 on Apr 18, 2020 9:16:09 GMT
It’s interesting to me that the people who want the lockdowns lifted and are happy to sacrifice the old talk about ‘freedom’. It’s the freedom those old people fought for when they were young and were asked to sacrifice for the old. Now they’re old they’re expected to sacrifice for the young?? Fuck that. People are being asked to do almost nothing to contribute. They aren’t being asked to go to a foreign country to fight in a war because their country asked it of them. These people are weak. They don’t understand hardship. Also, what ‘freedom’ does America have that we don’t have in Australia, or in Canada, or even in the UK where you have a tyrannical queen lol. The republicans are playing to the dumb, and it’s working. Want me to post that for you? It's a good un! |
|
|
|
Post by LKeet6 on Apr 18, 2020 9:41:35 GMT
www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/apr/17/trump-liberate-tweets-coronavirus-stay-at-home-orders"Donald Trump has posted highly incendiary tweets stoking protests against physical distancing and other coronavirus stay-at-home measures in three states led by Democratic governors. “LIBERATE MINNESOTA!” the US president wrote in capital letters on Friday. “LIBERATE MICHIGAN!” He followed up with a third tweet: “LIBERATE VIRGINIA, and save your great 2nd Amendment. It is under siege!” – a reference to Virginia’s governor, Ralph Northam, last week signing into law new measures on gun control. Trump has repeatedly ignored his own entreaty to put partisan politics aside during the coronavirus pandemic." What an absolute f'ing moron. He's dragged America down so far during his presidency.
|
|
|
|
Post by ray on Apr 18, 2020 10:52:14 GMT
It’s interesting to me that the people who want the lockdowns lifted and are happy to sacrifice the old talk about ‘freedom’. It’s the freedom those old people fought for when they were young and were asked to sacrifice for the old. Now they’re old they’re expected to sacrifice for the young?? Fuck that. People are being asked to do almost nothing to contribute. They aren’t being asked to go to a foreign country to fight in a war because their country asked it of them. These people are weak. They don’t understand hardship. Also, what ‘freedom’ does America have that we don’t have in Australia, or in Canada, or even in the UK where you have a tyrannical queen lol. The republicans are playing to the dumb, and it’s working. Want me to post that for you? It's a good un! Up to you. I think they’d get upset if you posted for me often. Happy for you to paraphrase as you see fit or post 👍 |
|
|
|
Post by ray on Apr 18, 2020 10:56:08 GMT
www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/apr/17/trump-liberate-tweets-coronavirus-stay-at-home-orders"Donald Trump has posted highly incendiary tweets stoking protests against physical distancing and other coronavirus stay-at-home measures in three states led by Democratic governors. “LIBERATE MINNESOTA!” the US president wrote in capital letters on Friday. “LIBERATE MICHIGAN!” He followed up with a third tweet: “LIBERATE VIRGINIA, and save your great 2nd Amendment. It is under siege!” – a reference to Virginia’s governor, Ralph Northam, last week signing into law new measures on gun control. Trump has repeatedly ignored his own entreaty to put partisan politics aside during the coronavirus pandemic." What an absolute f'ing moron. He's dragged America down so far during his presidency. I don’t see how it’s not sedition. But I guess if he can get away with bribing foreigners to influence an election, he can steal PPE that other countries own and it doesn’t even rate a mention in their media, he can smash the emoluments clause and his party just shrug their shoulders. The America we grew up thinking were the world police and all round good guys is no more. I honestly didn’t see this coming. I knew Trump was corrupt, but I trusted my American friends that said the ‘system’ would stop him. Yeah right lol. |
|
|
|
Post by LKeet6 on Apr 18, 2020 11:16:06 GMT
Want me to post that for you? It's a good un! Up to you. I think they’d get upset if you posted for me often. Happy for you to paraphrase as you see fit or post 👍 I was gonna say something like "I won't make a habit of this..." And then paste it. But yeah, might be a bit incendiary. It was just a really good post, and Paul has backed himself into a corner by saying he likes you 😉😂 (seriously though, it is cool that you've managed to keep a civil thing with him going.) I've already had a pop at Paul today, so I might leave it for now, and post that comment or another one by you in a day or two 👍 |
|
|
|
Post by LKeet6 on Apr 18, 2020 11:19:58 GMT
www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/apr/17/trump-liberate-tweets-coronavirus-stay-at-home-orders"Donald Trump has posted highly incendiary tweets stoking protests against physical distancing and other coronavirus stay-at-home measures in three states led by Democratic governors. “LIBERATE MINNESOTA!” the US president wrote in capital letters on Friday. “LIBERATE MICHIGAN!” He followed up with a third tweet: “LIBERATE VIRGINIA, and save your great 2nd Amendment. It is under siege!” – a reference to Virginia’s governor, Ralph Northam, last week signing into law new measures on gun control. Trump has repeatedly ignored his own entreaty to put partisan politics aside during the coronavirus pandemic." What an absolute f'ing moron. He's dragged America down so far during his presidency. I don’t see how it’s not sedition. But I guess if he can get away with bribing foreigners to influence an election, he can steal PPE that other countries own and it doesn’t even rate a mention in their media, he can smash the emoluments clause and his party just shrug their shoulders. The America we grew up thinking were the world police and all round good guys is no more. I honestly didn’t see this coming. I knew Trump was corrupt, but I trusted my American friends that said the ‘system’ would stop him. Yeah right lol. I think trump was manipulated/blackmailed into that russian stuff, by being too dumb and by going too deep by messing with them prior to it, and then couldn't back out. But that doesn't change your point, which I completely agree with. America has never been the good guys, in my eyes. And the world police stuff is just a smokescreen for all the international meddling they've done. Yes, often with "my" country's support... They basically caused Isis to exist with their meddling in the middle East and arms sales, further back they've overthrown democratically elected left wing govts in central and southern America and installed friendly tin pot dictators to keep their interests going. Likewise Africa. America has a LOT of blood on its hands. |
|
|
|
Post by hammers1man on Apr 18, 2020 20:26:21 GMT
I don’t see how it’s not sedition. But I guess if he can get away with bribing foreigners to influence an election, he can steal PPE that other countries own and it doesn’t even rate a mention in their media, he can smash the emoluments clause and his party just shrug their shoulders. The America we grew up thinking were the world police and all round good guys is no more. I honestly didn’t see this coming. I knew Trump was corrupt, but I trusted my American friends that said the ‘system’ would stop him. Yeah right lol. I think trump was manipulated/blackmailed into that russian stuff, by being too dumb and by going too deep by messing with them prior to it, and then couldn't back out. But that doesn't change your point, which I completely agree with. America has never been the good guys, in my eyes. And the world police stuff is just a smokescreen for all the international meddling they've done. Yes, often with "my" country's support... They basically caused Isis to exist with their meddling in the middle East and arms sales, further back they've overthrown democratically elected left wing govts in central and southern America and installed friendly tin pot dictators to keep their interests going. Likewise Africa. America has a LOT of blood on its hands. I am not defending Trump but the Chinese government is most to blame for this virus. This is not by accident but caused by human arrogence. Totally preventable and we all know it is a big cover up. I believe America's statistics but I don't believe China or Russia's. Not a big believer in Capitalism,absolutely hate what football (soccer) has become it's pathetic in the scale of what is important in life. Big sports are not so self important anymore and this is that wake up call. The fact that people are being paid obscene amount of money in sport might finally ring true now. The true heroes are those who save lives. It is a reality call to what is right and wrong in our society. |
|
|
|
Post by hammers1man on Apr 18, 2020 20:39:04 GMT
If anything this virus and loss of life has escalated how much I hate what football has become. Not sure I will ever look at it in the same way. Just so full of greed and self importance.
|
|
|
|
Post by hammers1man on Apr 18, 2020 20:49:22 GMT
Also a totally under funded NHS is what is saving Britain now, a wake up call to how much we need them. I would be more than happy to pay more to our NHS in the future. Probably the only good thing to come out of this is how important our NHS is to our country and it needs more funds.
|
|
|
|
Post by LKeet6 on Apr 18, 2020 20:59:57 GMT
I think trump was manipulated/blackmailed into that russian stuff, by being too dumb and by going too deep by messing with them prior to it, and then couldn't back out. But that doesn't change your point, which I completely agree with. America has never been the good guys, in my eyes. And the world police stuff is just a smokescreen for all the international meddling they've done. Yes, often with "my" country's support... They basically caused Isis to exist with their meddling in the middle East and arms sales, further back they've overthrown democratically elected left wing govts in central and southern America and installed friendly tin pot dictators to keep their interests going. Likewise Africa. America has a LOT of blood on its hands. I am not defending Trump but the Chinese government is most to blame for this virus. This is not by accident but caused by human arrogence. Totally preventable and we all know it is a big cover up. I believe America's statistics but I don't believe China or Russia. Not a big believer in Capitalism,absolutely hate what football (soccer) has become it's pathetic in the scale of what is important in life. Big sports are not so self important anymore and this is that wake up call. The fact that people are being paid obscene amount of money in sport might finally ring true now. The true heroes are those who save lives. It is a reality call to what is right and wrong in our society. Ooh, now we're talking, some big and juicy debating points!  What do you mean by cover up with regards China? I'm not sure about their numbers, but honestly I'm not convinced they're lying. People talk like they're so secretive, but there's 100s of thousands of foreigners over there, they allow foreign bodies like the WHO in there, we know how long they were in lockdown for. It's not as if information doesn't get out of the country. People talk like China is still this communist police state from the 70s and 80s, but there's very little of that left now. Yes, they're more careful than western countries, they have stricter controls on the internet and stuff; but as an example, all that whistle blowing stuff by the doctors came out in the end. If you mean cover up like this idea about how the virus was "made" or something, I'm not feeling that one at all. The WHO did their own independent studies, it definitely originated from that meat market. I've heard suggestions it somehow got from a lab to that meat market, maybe, I wouldn't be totally shocked by that, but you (by that I mean everyone "you") can't just say it, I need strong evidence. Now Russia, that's a cowboy state. I'm FAR more weary of them, to be honest. All the meddling in America, and hacking, that's definitely been happening, way too much evidence there, I'm convinced. And just how unregulated everything is there. The state media thing as well, and how insular they've become. Scary shit. We also need to not be so arrogant ourselves, as if our countries don't cover up all kinds of shit behind our backs. And we all know how much we're being watched and monitored too. Snooper's charter anyone? I'm certainly not blaming trump for the virus! I'm just mocking him and shaking my head in disbelief and sympathy for America that they have him dealing with the fallout! I'm 100% with you on hating the money aspect of football. When all this anger at the players started, and teams furloughing, I was up in arms too! Then I started listening to podcasts and reading more articles, and I've changed my stance quite a lot. Firstly, from the players point of view, they always intended to give money. Their point was if they take a pay cut, all that's doing is saving money for clubs, and taking away tax money from HMRC. They are going to end up giving very generously to places where it's needed. From the clubs' point of view, I don't think they should furlough, I don't want them too. But I do think it's interesting how they (and the players) were targeted by Hancock in that speech. (Sunak later said something different, which I'll get to.) I think they're an easy target, and there's places with MUCH more money where we should point out anger. I'm realising I've written a LOT already, and I have way more to say, especially about the furloughing thing. But basically tldr: why is everyone directing their anger at players, who are small fry in the super rich world, and clubs, who although are worth a lot of money as businesses, are small fry in the profits world? It's because football is so much in the public eye, and we already have anger at the amount of money in what is just a game. They were an easy target, and used as a political tool. Let be clear, I think the amount of money in football is gross, that's not a new thing; and there's loads of other gross stuff too, from corruption to sportswashing by Arab states. But on the issue of relating it to the pandemic situation, I don't share the majority view. Have a read of this and see if it influences your opinion a bit. Not expecting you to change your mind! Like I said, I still don't want clubs to do it, something doesn't feel right about it. But see if it gives you a slightly different perspective. www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2020/apr/11/julian-knight-rishi-sunak-furlough-furore-premier-league-ignores-aim-protect-jobsSo sorry for the super long post! |
|
|
|
Post by LKeet6 on Apr 18, 2020 21:03:19 GMT
Also a totally under funded NHS is what is saving Britain now, a wake up call to how much we need them. I would be more than happy to pay more to our NHS in the future. Probably the only good thing to come out of this is how important our NHS is to our country and it needs more funds. Agree wholeheartedly! And THAT is where our anger SHOULD be directed. The deliberate and cynical managed decline of the NHS. Money for that won't come from football! It needs to come from proper taxation of the mega rich and corporations. No more using this country as a deregulated tax and financial haven for outside interests! Education, infrastructure and health is where our money should be spent. Not tax breaks for some imaginary "boost to the economy!" |
|
|
|
Post by hammers1man on Apr 18, 2020 21:16:35 GMT
I am not defending Trump but the Chinese government is most to blame for this virus. This is not by accident but caused by human arrogence. Totally preventable and we all know it is a big cover up. I believe America's statistics but I don't believe China or Russia. Not a big believer in Capitalism,absolutely hate what football (soccer) has become it's pathetic in the scale of what is important in life. Big sports are not so self important anymore and this is that wake up call. The fact that people are being paid obscene amount of money in sport might finally ring true now. The true heroes are those who save lives. It is a reality call to what is right and wrong in our society. Ooh, now we're talking, some big and juicy debating points! What do you mean by cover up with regards China? I'm not sure about their numbers, but honestly I'm not convinced they're lying. People talk like they're so secretive, but there's 100s of thousands of foreigners over there, they allow foreign bodies like the WHO in there, we know how long they were in lockdown for. It's not as if information doesn't get out of the country. People talk like China is still this communist police state from the 70s and 80s, but there's very little of that left now. Yes, they're more careful than western countries, they have stricter controls on the internet and stuff; but as an example, all that whistle blowing stuff by the doctors came out in the end. If you mean cover up like this idea about how the virus was "made" or something, I'm not feeling that one at all. The WHO did their own independent studies, it definitely originated from that meat market. I've heard suggestions it somehow got from a lab to that meat market, maybe, I wouldn't be totally shocked by that, but you (by that I mean everyone "you") can't just say it, I need strong evidence. Now Russia, that's a cowboy state. I'm FAR more weary of them, to be honest. All the meddling in America, and hacking, that's definitely been happening, way too much evidence there, I'm convinced. And just how unregulated everything is there. The state media thing as well, and how insular they've become. Scary shit. We also need to not be so arrogant ourselves, as if our countries don't cover up all kinds of shit behind our backs. And we all know how much we're being watched and monitored too. Snooper's charter anyone? I'm certainly not blaming trump for the virus! I'm just mocking him and shaking my head in disbelief and sympathy for America that they have him dealing with the fallout! I'm 100% with you on hating the money aspect of football. When all this anger at the players started, and teams furloughing, I was up in arms too! Then I started listening to podcasts and reading more articles, and I've changed my stance quite a lot. Firstly, from the players point of view, they always intended to give money. Their point was if they take a pay cut, all that's doing is saving money for clubs, and taking away tax money from HMRC. They are going to end up giving very generously to places where it's needed. From the clubs' point of view, I don't think they should furlough, I don't want them too. But I do think it's interesting how they (and the players) were targeted by Hancock in that speech. (Sunak later said something different, which I'll get to.) I think they're an easy target, and there's places with MUCH more money where we should point out anger. I'm realising I've written a LOT already, and I have way more to say, especially about the furloughing thing. But basically tldr: why is everyone directing their anger at players, who are small fry in the super rich world, and clubs, who although are worth a lot of money as businesses, are small fry in the profits world? It's because football is so much in the public eye, and we already have anger at the amount of money in what is just a game. They were an easy target, and used as a political tool. Let be clear, I think the amount of money in football is gross, that's not a new thing; and there's loads of other gross stuff too, from corruption to sportswashing by Arab states. But on the issue of relating it to the pandemic situation, I don't share the majority view. Have a read of this and see if it influences your opinion a bit. Not expecting you to change your mind! Like I said, I still don't want clubs to do it, something doesn't feel right about it. But see if it gives you a slightly different perspective. www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2020/apr/11/julian-knight-rishi-sunak-furlough-furore-premier-league-ignores-aim-protect-jobsSo sorry for the super long post! The obscene amount of money and player greed happened way before this. Now that resentment from fans is personified. There is no loyalty in football and less money now also. I hate what it has become. China are covering up their lab experiments with virusis and their safety prototcols are substandard. Are the WHO really doing their jobs, I am suspect because these issues about wet markets have come up before years ago. They have huge funding but are not doing their job well imo, or do you really think they are? |
|
|
|
Post by hammers1man on Apr 18, 2020 21:25:07 GMT
The difference between China and America is you can criticise Trump, you can't the Chinese government. You will be censored in everything you say or media you produce. There is absolutely no freedom of speech in that country. Thank fuck I don't live there
|
|
|
|
Post by LKeet6 on Apr 18, 2020 21:33:26 GMT
Ooh, now we're talking, some big and juicy debating points! What do you mean by cover up with regards China? I'm not sure about their numbers, but honestly I'm not convinced they're lying. People talk like they're so secretive, but there's 100s of thousands of foreigners over there, they allow foreign bodies like the WHO in there, we know how long they were in lockdown for. It's not as if information doesn't get out of the country. People talk like China is still this communist police state from the 70s and 80s, but there's very little of that left now. Yes, they're more careful than western countries, they have stricter controls on the internet and stuff; but as an example, all that whistle blowing stuff by the doctors came out in the end. If you mean cover up like this idea about how the virus was "made" or something, I'm not feeling that one at all. The WHO did their own independent studies, it definitely originated from that meat market. I've heard suggestions it somehow got from a lab to that meat market, maybe, I wouldn't be totally shocked by that, but you (by that I mean everyone "you") can't just say it, I need strong evidence. Now Russia, that's a cowboy state. I'm FAR more weary of them, to be honest. All the meddling in America, and hacking, that's definitely been happening, way too much evidence there, I'm convinced. And just how unregulated everything is there. The state media thing as well, and how insular they've become. Scary shit. We also need to not be so arrogant ourselves, as if our countries don't cover up all kinds of shit behind our backs. And we all know how much we're being watched and monitored too. Snooper's charter anyone? I'm certainly not blaming trump for the virus! I'm just mocking him and shaking my head in disbelief and sympathy for America that they have him dealing with the fallout! I'm 100% with you on hating the money aspect of football. When all this anger at the players started, and teams furloughing, I was up in arms too! Then I started listening to podcasts and reading more articles, and I've changed my stance quite a lot. Firstly, from the players point of view, they always intended to give money. Their point was if they take a pay cut, all that's doing is saving money for clubs, and taking away tax money from HMRC. They are going to end up giving very generously to places where it's needed. From the clubs' point of view, I don't think they should furlough, I don't want them too. But I do think it's interesting how they (and the players) were targeted by Hancock in that speech. (Sunak later said something different, which I'll get to.) I think they're an easy target, and there's places with MUCH more money where we should point out anger. I'm realising I've written a LOT already, and I have way more to say, especially about the furloughing thing. But basically tldr: why is everyone directing their anger at players, who are small fry in the super rich world, and clubs, who although are worth a lot of money as businesses, are small fry in the profits world? It's because football is so much in the public eye, and we already have anger at the amount of money in what is just a game. They were an easy target, and used as a political tool. Let be clear, I think the amount of money in football is gross, that's not a new thing; and there's loads of other gross stuff too, from corruption to sportswashing by Arab states. But on the issue of relating it to the pandemic situation, I don't share the majority view. Have a read of this and see if it influences your opinion a bit. Not expecting you to change your mind! Like I said, I still don't want clubs to do it, something doesn't feel right about it. But see if it gives you a slightly different perspective. www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2020/apr/11/julian-knight-rishi-sunak-furlough-furore-premier-league-ignores-aim-protect-jobsSo sorry for the super long post! The obscene amount of money and player greed happened way before this. Now that resentment from fans is personified. There is no loyalty in football and less money now also. I hate what it has become. China are covering up their lab experiments with virusis and their safety prototcols are substandard. Are the WHO really doing their jobs, I am suspect because these issues about wet markets have come up before years ago. They have huge funding but are not doing their job well imo, or do you really think they are? I agree with you about football! Just don't see how it relates to coronavirus. Or certainly not why we aren't then talking about the people and companies who are WAY more rich and greedy. I think the WHO have done a decent job, yeah. Thankless task! I have heard some stuff about the safety measures in their experiments. Need to hear more. What do you mean by they are covering up lab experiments with viruses? Can you point me somewhere to read about it? The wet markets thing has come up before yeah. Forcing a massive country to change their cultural behaviours with regards to food is a big thing. Not exactly a vote winner! But I'm pretty sure they want to change it themselves now, and if not they will be put under HUGE pressure by the international community. I will be VERY surprised if they're not banned now. (But that's not the WHOs responsibility. They have literally zero power. They're just an advisory board and policy maker/suggester.) |
|
|
|
Post by LKeet6 on Apr 18, 2020 21:36:47 GMT
The difference between China and America is you can criticise Trump, you can't the Chinese government. You will be censored in everything you say or media you produce. There is absolutely no freedom of speech in that country. Thank fuck I don't live there I don't agree there's literally no freedom of speech. Like I said there were whistle blowers, and then loads of people supported them and criticised the govt until they admitted their mistakes. There's definitely censorship there, and it's not as easy to criticise the govt, but it definitely happens. I understand you not wanting to live there, I don't think I would either, but I had this debate over on the other forum and pointed out there are currently 600k immigrants living there at the moment, many from the UK and US. I know a few people who have lived there for at least a year. People seem to like it! |
|
