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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2020 11:50:57 GMT
I would have nothing against trying a PRO tourney or allowing splash shot with clubs other than LW from rough. Maybe allowing pro clubs until the player shoots a tournament at -4 or better? Getting close to a green, where a chip shot is not possible, and then having no available shot is really starting to annoy me now. (To me, having a 15-30yd shot and using a pitch shot does not count, despite it being technically possible...) What I have just started doing. is find the club that doubles my pitch distance and go about waist high with the hands on the back swing. For instance, if I have a 35 yd. pitch I pick the club that has closest to 70 yds. carry. So far, its the only way I can pitch lol.  |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2020 11:53:33 GMT
I know it's possible and I know it can, with loads of boring practice, be possible. But I hate it. Having a fraction of a second difference between hitting it 20yds and 52yds is not a good representation of golf, in my opinion. In real life, you'd just hit it softer. Not an easy shot, but VERY easy to not hit it 52yds. And I find this really annoying. I'm not going to spend ages learning how to do it. I have no motivation for that. I've also said many times, I understand why splash is banned. My preference would be to have it in but, to me, the choice is between 2 rubbish outcomes, whereas for you, you like the challenge of getting the pitch right. I'm happy to accept the way things are, but it's one of the things taking enjoyment out of it for me... This is why I have said it before, the pitch backswing needs to be slowed down as it is way too fast on 100% intent for pitch shots. We can do this by pulling the left stick back to a more comfortable backswing speed. Then the difference between 20 and 52 yards becomes much bigger and much more manageable to judge . If you set percentage only for marker on a practice round and pull back that percentage from 100 to 80% or even 70% you will see exactly what I mean. I swing with the left stick so I would use the right stick for this? Does this work even though we have an invisible marker? |
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Leon
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Post by Leon on Oct 30, 2020 12:11:46 GMT
Getting close to a green, where a chip shot is not possible, and then having no available shot is really starting to annoy me now. (To me, having a 15-30yd shot and using a pitch shot does not count, despite it being technically possible...) What I have just started doing. is find the club that doubles my pitch distance and go about waist high with the hands on the back swing. For instance, if I have a 35 yd. pitch I pick the club that has closest to 70 yds. carry. So far, its the only way I can pitch lol. I'm using flop. Fully delofted (still not sure this makes a difference!) And slow downswing. Still basically the same issue as pitch, but it's a 10yd less shot and maybe ever so slightly easier to do a partial. I'll also sometimes risk a delofted chip with a longer club and hope the extra height can get me over whatever the obstacle is. Pulled off a very nice one on the front 9 par 5 (7th?) At Augusta, to get a makeable birdie putt. (Think I missed it!) |
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Leon
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Post by Leon on Oct 30, 2020 12:13:35 GMT
I know it's possible and I know it can, with loads of boring practice, be possible. But I hate it. Having a fraction of a second difference between hitting it 20yds and 52yds is not a good representation of golf, in my opinion. In real life, you'd just hit it softer. Not an easy shot, but VERY easy to not hit it 52yds. And I find this really annoying. I'm not going to spend ages learning how to do it. I have no motivation for that. I've also said many times, I understand why splash is banned. My preference would be to have it in but, to me, the choice is between 2 rubbish outcomes, whereas for you, you like the challenge of getting the pitch right. I'm happy to accept the way things are, but it's one of the things taking enjoyment out of it for me... This is why I have said it before, the pitch backswing needs to be slowed down as it is way too fast on 100% intent for pitch shots. We can do this by pulling the left stick back to a more comfortable backswing speed. Then the difference between 20 and 52 yards becomes much bigger and much more manageable to judge . If you set percentage only for marker on a practice round and pull back that percentage from 100 to 80% or even 70% you will see exactly what I mean. Right, so change the intent without being able to see it? And that slows down the backswing speed? I might try it. I might also carry on deliberately leaving myself short and aiming for bunkers! |
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Post by hammers1man on Oct 30, 2020 12:46:11 GMT
Slowing the backswing does work without marker, just pull the left or right stick for Wade back until you get a comfortable backswing speed. Chipping green is a good place to practice this. I know paddy and Will practice the pitch alot. Remember I use the forgiving wedges. I use the lob and sand wedge for my pitching. Also the 83 yard full shot lob wedge is a great scoring club for me. I gave up on the distance short and long irons as they are a bit too unforgiving. I do use the HB 3 iron now and how dropped the hybrids. My diver, 3 wood, 5 wood are distance woods. |
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Post by SimChars1968 on Oct 30, 2020 14:08:00 GMT
Slowing the backswing does work without marker, just pull the left or right stick for Wade back until you get a comfortable backswing speed. Chipping green is a good place to practice this. I know paddy and Will practice the pitch alot. Remember I use the forgiving wedges. I use the lob and sand wedge for my pitching. Also the 83 yard full shot lob wedge is a great scoring club for me. I gave up on the distance short and long irons as they are a bit too unforgiving. I do use the HB 3 iron now and how dropped the hybrids. My diver, 3 wood, 5 wood are distance woods. I really don't get this society. You say you want realism and then set-up with conditions on some of the hardest courses out there, that under these rules are never going to give you that. You don't allow manually using the mouse(true-shot) to draw and fade, which is absolutely fine with me. You then say it is okay to pull the marker back to make pitching easier, how is that okay but the former not? It is all becoming more and more confusing. Half the members seem to be playing one way and some to other methods. It just seems a bit of a mess at the moment, what certain members want etc etc. I think it would have been sensible to carry on with the trial events a little longer and then formulate the rules so we are all singing off the same hymn sheet. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2020 14:18:03 GMT
I really don't get this society. You say you want realism and then set-up with conditions on some of the hardest courses out there, that under these rules are never going to give you that. You don't allow manually using the mouse(true-shot) to draw and fade, which is absolutely fine with me. You then say it is okay to pull the marker back to make pitching easier, how is that okay but the former not? It is all becoming more and more confusing. Half the members seem to be playing one way and some to other methods. It just seems a bit of a mess at the moment, what certain members want etc etc. I think it would have been sensible to carry on with the trial events a little longer and then formulate the rules so we are all singing off the same hymn sheet. It's my understanding that you can use true shot however you wish, especially for draw and fades. |
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Post by paddyjk19 on Oct 30, 2020 14:29:46 GMT
So my findings with the marker and pitch shots is as follows;
For this example let's say that perfect - perfect tempo with a full swing on maximum intent is 2 seconds as in it takes 2 seconds to go back and through with the swing.
2 seconds would be a well executed shot.
If you move the marker to a shorter distance it slows the swing speed down but hitting the perfect distance still requires a 2 second swing, back and through to hit the perfect distance. the actual length of the swing is pretty much nullified.
I've tested this with the marker on and a metronome, if people are struggling it's because they are getting too caught up with the swing length.
My advice would be to go on the range and hit full pitch shots and say "tick tock" in your head until you get this timing and tempo in grained, then play some rounds with the marker on and adjust it to where you want the ball to land and just replicate that exact "tick tock" like you would for a full pitch and you'll start landing it near the hole.
Over time you can judge the speed of the swing and guess roughly where that equates to the marker being in USE.
It's complicated as fuck but that's how it works.
The easier option would be to just let people have an open short game but I get why we don't like the splash shot
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Leon
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Post by Leon on Oct 30, 2020 14:33:03 GMT
I really don't get this society. You say you want realism and then set-up with conditions on some of the hardest courses out there, that under these rules are never going to give you that. You don't allow manually using the mouse(true-shot) to draw and fade, which is absolutely fine with me. You then say it is okay to pull the marker back to make pitching easier, how is that okay but the former not? It is all becoming more and more confusing. Half the members seem to be playing one way and some to other methods. It just seems a bit of a mess at the moment, what certain members want etc etc. I think it would have been sensible to carry on with the trial events a little longer and then formulate the rules so we are all singing off the same hymn sheet. I agree things are a bit of a mess, but it's a new game and holding off on tournaments until now would've been a bit much, in my opinion. Every other society has been going for ages. And those are still having their growing pains too. I don't agree on the course selection and conditions. How are they affecting "realism?" I can understand people saying it's affecting their enjoyment, but not the realism part... You're allowed to use fade and draw. (I really hate ball flights in this game, on all shots, especially when you slow/fast and use fade/draw. I use it sometimes, but try to avoid it.) How is changing your intent percentage (pulling back on left stick) unrealistic? You're right that there are different judgements applied to different types of shots, but that's the point, isn't it? Striving for realism? Some are too easy/unrealistic and some make things a bit easier for you, but are still shots that are hard to pull off and remain realistic? Maybe the admins need to re-state EXACTLY what every rule is, and exactly why that rule is in place, for each shot. |
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Post by SimChars1968 on Oct 30, 2020 14:52:03 GMT
I really don't get this society. You say you want realism and then set-up with conditions on some of the hardest courses out there, that under these rules are never going to give you that. You don't allow manually using the mouse(true-shot) to draw and fade, which is absolutely fine with me. You then say it is okay to pull the marker back to make pitching easier, how is that okay but the former not? It is all becoming more and more confusing. Half the members seem to be playing one way and some to other methods. It just seems a bit of a mess at the moment, what certain members want etc etc. I think it would have been sensible to carry on with the trial events a little longer and then formulate the rules so we are all singing off the same hymn sheet. I agree things are a bit of a mess, but it's a new game and holding off on tournaments until now would've been a bit much, in my opinion. Every other society has been going for ages. And those are still having their growing pains too. I don't agree on the course selection and conditions. How are they affecting "realism?" I can understand people saying it's affecting their enjoyment, but not the realism part... You're allowed to use fade and draw. (I really hate ball flights in this game, on all shots, especially when you slow/fast and use fade/draw. I use it sometimes, but try to avoid it.) How is changing your intent percentage (pulling back on left stick) unrealistic? You're right that there are different judgements applied to different types of shots, but that's the point, isn't it? Striving for realism? Some are too easy/unrealistic and some make things a bit easier for you, but are still shots that are hard to pull off and remain realistic? Maybe the admins need to re-state EXACTLY what every rule is, and exactly why that rule is in place, for each shot. I mean if they want FIR/GIR stats to correlate with the PGA, don't keep setting conditions that are making that extremely difficult for us to replicate those stats, firm/fast/high winds. As regards fade/draw, it was my understanding that these had to be performed by your tempo and not using the shot shaping icon. That is what I am saying, it is a bit all over the place at the moment. As I said in my post yesterday, I really haven't enjoyed the last few tournaments and all this confusion over what is okay and what isn't, doesn't help. I will step back for a while and see where things go. |
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Post by andersnm on Oct 30, 2020 14:58:34 GMT
I really don't get this society. You say you want realism and then set-up with conditions on some of the hardest courses out there, that under these rules are never going to give you that. You don't allow manually using the mouse(true-shot) to draw and fade, which is absolutely fine with me. You then say it is okay to pull the marker back to make pitching easier, how is that okay but the former not? It is all becoming more and more confusing. Half the members seem to be playing one way and some to other methods. It just seems a bit of a mess at the moment, what certain members want etc etc. I think it would have been sensible to carry on with the trial events a little longer and then formulate the rules so we are all singing off the same hymn sheet. I assume you are refering to realism as in realistic scores and stats. The point of this society, is to play the game as realistic as possible. That do not mean every one of us will get realistic scores when compared to the PGA Tour. But we are not far off for many players - even on tough courses. PGA Tour average is 71,5 strokes pr round. That is roughly par. And the discussion in this thread has been on both the experience in playing over par, and how we can achieve more realistic scores. I do not think we will manage that to perfection. The game has its flaws as a Sim, but it is the best video golf game for sim play. And it is totaly okay and normal that we don't agree on how to achieve this. If we are to change anything, I think we should put up a few polls. That way, everyone can vote for their opinion. As for courses and conditions: we only play real courses, and the courses are selected with the criteria of being a good recreation, championship courses usualy used on Tour (PGA Tour, European Tour, etc), with the occasional less known course in the mix. In the schedule - a geographical theme has been chosen, so we have now mainly played courses in the eastern-northly part of US, and you will see on the Euro schedule that the geographical theme is followed when we start in Finland then procede to Scandinavia, then to England etc. Conditions have many times been set as the real life weather on the course that week we play the course. So for Oakmont - the forecast for that week had 10 mph wind and light cloud/overcast and the direction chosen. Wind strength in the game is varied based on what theme is used - and on Oakmont, the wind is quite low compared to other themes - so that is why "High" was chosen to get that 10 mph wind. So we both try to use good real life courses - and set realistic conditions based on real life weather. I can't see that we can do this any more realistic. As has been said by others - True shot is not banned, and you can use it freely. It comes with the downside that the windows for swingline and tempo is smaller when you use it though, but to draw or fade, just use True shot as much as you like. |
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Post by hammers1man on Oct 30, 2020 17:32:43 GMT
This is why I have said it before, the pitch backswing needs to be slowed down as it is way too fast on 100% intent for pitch shots. We can do this by pulling the left stick back to a more comfortable backswing speed. Then the difference between 20 and 52 yards becomes much bigger and much more manageable to judge . If you set percentage only for marker on a practice round and pull back that percentage from 100 to 80% or even 70% you will see exactly what I mean. Right, so change the intent without being able to see it? And that slows down the backswing speed? I might try it. I might also carry on deliberately leaving myself short and aiming for bunkers! I am sure pros also aim for bunkers irl rather than land in penal heavy rough at times. |
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Post by hammers1man on Oct 30, 2020 17:50:59 GMT
I agree things are a bit of a mess, but it's a new game and holding off on tournaments until now would've been a bit much, in my opinion. Every other society has been going for ages. And those are still having their growing pains too. I don't agree on the course selection and conditions. How are they affecting "realism?" I can understand people saying it's affecting their enjoyment, but not the realism part... You're allowed to use fade and draw. (I really hate ball flights in this game, on all shots, especially when you slow/fast and use fade/draw. I use it sometimes, but try to avoid it.) How is changing your intent percentage (pulling back on left stick) unrealistic? You're right that there are different judgements applied to different types of shots, but that's the point, isn't it? Striving for realism? Some are too easy/unrealistic and some make things a bit easier for you, but are still shots that are hard to pull off and remain realistic? Maybe the admins need to re-state EXACTLY what every rule is, and exactly why that rule is in place, for each shot. I mean if they want FIR/GIR stats to correlate with the PGA, don't keep setting conditions that are making that extremely difficult for us to replicate those stats, firm/fast/high winds. As regards fade/draw, it was my understanding that these had to be performed by your tempo and not using the shot shaping icon. That is what I am saying, it is a bit all over the place at the moment. As I said in my post yesterday, I really haven't enjoyed the last few tournaments and all this confusion over what is okay and what isn't, doesn't help. I will step back for a while and see where things go. Everything is stated in the rules that Anders has posted up. True shot has never been forbidden. Loft box was in the last game because it was dial a distance but we have discussed many times that this games shot shaper is a big improvement and rightfully narrows tempo and swing plain boxes Regarding the pulling back to slow backswing for pitch, that is more because the pitch backswing is too fast. The game sets intent automatically so you will find different backswing speeds for different shots around the green including a painfully slow 60% splash when playing certain bunker shots. the game was designed to move a marker for intent and as we don't use a marker I see no problem. I rarely change it now as I go by backswing distance for partial pitch, but no problem with others doing to help their game. I never touch it for full shots though, personally I would of liked the game to be set to 80% backswing speed for no marker as it feels like a realistic backswing speed for pitch flop and splash. I don't use flop myself as I prefer the pitch shot. Anders has explained the course and conditions selection perfectly in his reply, Firethorn is design on Augusta and the greens are exceptionally fast and contoured, I think Robert softened up the greens this week. Paddy and Will hit some fantastic under par rounds which shows the course is fair but tough. Don't get down about your final round as you played really well in the first 3, Jeff had a bit of a mare in round 4 also, these things happen. We have had a really tough start to season 3 but there are some easier courses coming up and we will have some easier conditions also. |
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Post by andersnm on Oct 30, 2020 18:43:02 GMT
We have fewer restrictions in this game compared to TGC 2019 (no longer Loft Box ban or the intentional slow backswing).
The only restrictions we have, is no follow cam, no out of turn ghosts, and no chipping out of bunkers - which is the same as TGC 2019, and then we find the splash shot to be unrealistic on grass. Is it harder to scramble from rough without the splash? Certainly. Is it impossible? No way. If you have short-sided yourself, a bogey is the natural score - but a good pitch, and a long putt can save par.
And remember - a pro will always prefer sand to heavy rough. Heavy rough means a bogey or worse is likely around the green - little green to work with - very likely.
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Leon
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Post by Leon on Oct 30, 2020 19:06:40 GMT
Right, so change the intent without being able to see it? And that slows down the backswing speed? I might try it. I might also carry on deliberately leaving myself short and aiming for bunkers! I am sure pros also aim for bunkers irl rather than land in penal heavy rough at times. Yep, I know it happens. More like take the club down if they're uncertain (and bunker is front,) or don't take pin on if you're flirting with rough... |
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