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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2020 11:46:08 GMT
Not banning another shot but allowing SW splash upwards. The stats of TST scrambling are too high and their scores are too low. No marker is not going to make a huge difference. I know Phil Mickelson advocates explosive bunker shots with less loft in order to expand the distance you can do that. But this is bunker shots - not from grass. I would be happy to see any video from a pro hitting explosive splash shot from grass with an 8 iron. The problem here - is that no matter what we do, I think we end up with unrealistic stats. Question becomes what experience we want. Why do we get so low scrambling stat? We need to look at our putting stats also in relation to scrambling - since we putt worse, scrambling will also be worse. We do not sink as many 5-8 footers, so those becomes bogeys. If you get up and down 3 times more in a round, the scrambling stat would suddenly be realistic and right on point with real life. So I am quite satisfied with our scrambling stats. As I said - the best solution in my opinion, would be Master swing difficulty on the long game, and Pro difficulty on the short (even better would be a gradual increase in accuracy with more loft, so a 7 iron is little bit easier than a 6 iron etc - but I would be surprised big time if that is patched this time). That is unfortunately not possible - so either we get unrealistic driving stat (and thus probably a bit too good GIR%) with Pro difficulty, or we are left with unrealistic bad GIR% - and the need for unrealistic gameplay in order to get unrealistic scrambling to get realistic scores. The latter is not good for my experience with the game - and for me, that is using unrealistic game mechanics in order to score as low as possible and is the opposite of what we try to do here. I know everyone is against Pro difficulty. When I watch the PGA scores in tournaments for the most part the winner is usually around -20 for the event. Except for the Majors. We aren't coming close to that. Sloaner is the only one I've seen come close at -17 a few weeks ago. Maybe we could hire him as our swing coach and all the stats would look great! At this point I guess we have no other option than to keep playing as we are playing. Maybe we could go easier on the weather and course conditions (less wind/ softer greens) to help balance out the stats. I'm sure everyone would get bored with that too. |
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Post by hammers1man on Oct 28, 2020 12:34:34 GMT
I know Phil Mickelson advocates explosive bunker shots with less loft in order to expand the distance you can do that. But this is bunker shots - not from grass. I would be happy to see any video from a pro hitting explosive splash shot from grass with an 8 iron. The problem here - is that no matter what we do, I think we end up with unrealistic stats. Question becomes what experience we want. Why do we get so low scrambling stat? We need to look at our putting stats also in relation to scrambling - since we putt worse, scrambling will also be worse. We do not sink as many 5-8 footers, so those becomes bogeys. If you get up and down 3 times more in a round, the scrambling stat would suddenly be realistic and right on point with real life. So I am quite satisfied with our scrambling stats. As I said - the best solution in my opinion, would be Master swing difficulty on the long game, and Pro difficulty on the short (even better would be a gradual increase in accuracy with more loft, so a 7 iron is little bit easier than a 6 iron etc - but I would be surprised big time if that is patched this time). That is unfortunately not possible - so either we get unrealistic driving stat (and thus probably a bit too good GIR%) with Pro difficulty, or we are left with unrealistic bad GIR% - and the need for unrealistic gameplay in order to get unrealistic scrambling to get realistic scores. The latter is not good for my experience with the game - and for me, that is using unrealistic game mechanics in order to score as low as possible and is the opposite of what we try to do here. I know everyone is against Pro difficulty. When I watch the PGA scores in tournaments for the most part the winner is usually around -20 for the event. Except for the Majors. We aren't coming close to that. Sloaner is the only one I've seen come close at -17 a few weeks ago. Maybe we could hire him as our swing coach and all the stats would look great! At this point I guess we have no other option than to keep playing as we are playing. Maybe we could go easier on the weather and course conditions (less wind/ softer greens) to help balance out the stats. I'm sure everyone would get bored with that too. Sloaner's first tournament was - 20 and second was - 17 though he did play the 3rd round with no wind direction info and had a 4 over round. We have had a difficult start, Oakmont is an extremely difficult course irl. Most of the field for the 2016 US Open finished over par. Dustin Johnson won it with - 4. |
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Post by andersnm on Oct 28, 2020 13:22:07 GMT
I know everyone is against Pro difficulty. When I watch the PGA scores in tournaments for the most part the winner is usually around -20 for the event. Except for the Majors. We aren't coming close to that. Sloaner is the only one I've seen come close at -17 a few weeks ago. Maybe we could hire him as our swing coach and all the stats would look great! At this point I guess we have no other option than to keep playing as we are playing. Maybe we could go easier on the weather and course conditions (less wind/ softer greens) to help balance out the stats. I'm sure everyone would get bored with that too. Sloaner's first tournament was - 20 and second was - 17 though he did play the 3rd round with no wind direction info and had a 4 over round. We have had a difficult start, Oakmont is an extremely difficult course irl. Most of the field for the 2016 US Open finished over par. Dustin Johnson won it with - 4. We are talking about a 16 and 19 stroke victory, and no one else in this society is nowhere close to that level. Winning score would have been -1 which is in line with results in our tournaments. Winning score ranging from +4 to -2. I am not privy to the PS4 stats though - but you can see them Paul. In TST YOYO Championship, Sloaner had 81% fairway, 87,5% GIR, 1,39 putts pr hole, and 89% scrambling -44 total score winning with 8 strokes. That there will be diversion in score among us is given. Most of us are hackers trying to simulate PGA Tour professionals - while others are world class in pixel-golf. So it will be a hard time if we want to have realism on scoring for every player - it is impossible. In order for everyone to shoot realistic scores, we need to tailor difficulty for everyone which we do not want. So what we have achieved so far, is for the majority in this society to get unrealistic bad scores and stats if we compare us to real life PGA Tour. Question I always ask - is what is a realistic and fun experience for all of us? Unrealistic bad scores, or unrealistic good scores? And as I read it - we differ in opinion here as well. I kind of read what Wade are saying - people getting tired of shooting +40. And then I read you saying you would get tired of shooting too straight. I am not sure if Pro is that much easier than Master - and the only way to find out is to try it out. I am not sure if enough of us will play double tournaments each week - one with master and one with pro. I would be willing to do so. Oakmont CC is a difficult course - and US Open makes it even more difficult with their setup with incredible hard and deep rough, firm and fast greens. So not completely representative since the rough in game is nowhere near as difficult as they make it in US Open. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2020 23:43:31 GMT
andersnm , hammers1man Soooo, just for grins I did a comparison test. First I dropped the purple Callaway clubs and picked up the Silver Ben Hogan's. I went to the driving range and recalibrated my swing. I decided to play Augusta again with our Tournament R1 conditions. These are probably the best two rounds I've played on 2k21. The first round was with Master difficulty. The second round was with Pro difficulty. USE settings and rules for both rounds. Of course there was no swing glitch and no pressure these two rounds. Notice the stats and scores are almost identical between Master and Pro. I was surprised, then it occurred to me. By dropping to the Silver clubs my swing plane and forgiveness were close to pro difficulty anyway. A better comparison would have been to use the purple clubs. One thing is for sure. If I can shoot this well on Augusta in these conditions (high winds, very fast greens) I will stay with the silver Ben Hogan clubs and sink or swim with them. I will also shut up about Pro difficulty unless everyone wants to switch. From what I've read it doesn't sound like Pro is the way to go. Master Difficulty   Pro Difficulty  
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Post by jeff on Oct 29, 2020 17:31:17 GMT
My vote is to allow any shot with any club from anywhere for a couple of tournaments to see if stats align better with the pros.
YMMV.
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Post by andersnm on Oct 29, 2020 17:47:06 GMT
My vote is to allow any shot with any club from anywhere for a couple of tournaments to see if stats align better with the pros. YMMV. My vote is against that. I will vote for us to continue with Master difficulty and the same guidelines and rules. What is most important for me, is that we all play on the same settings and ethos of playing realistic - and that means that I would prefer to play on Pro difficulty and no unrealistic chipping out of bunkers or high spin splash shots from heavy rough if that was needed for realistic scoring. That being said - we are not far off realistic scoring and stats, and we will be better. Take my 3rd round on Augusta - my main problem is putting these days - if I had putted well, I would most likely have played -2 on that round - and I see many players shooting near par, and that is actually realistic. -8 is not common, and double digits under par are very rare. |
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Post by paddyjk19 on Oct 29, 2020 17:49:59 GMT
My vote is to allow any shot with any club from anywhere for a couple of tournaments to see if stats align better with the pros. YMMV. My vote is against that. I will vote for us to continue with Master difficulty and the same guidelines and rules. What is most important for me, is that we all play on the same settings and ethos of playing realistic - and that means that I would prefer to play on Pro difficulty and no unrealistic chipping out of bunkers or high spin splash shots from heavy rough if that was needed for realistic scoring. That being said - we are not far off realistic scoring and stats, and we will be better. Take my 3rd round on Augusta - my main problem is putting these days - if I had putted well, I would most likely have played -2 on that round - and I see many players shooting near par, and that is actually realistic. -8 is not common, and double digits under par are very rare. I’m fine with current rules, +5 and +2 last two events feels normal for me but I’m concerned others don’t feel that way and I’d hate to lose long time members. I think we should vote about how we experiment in the next few weeks, that would be fair I think |
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Post by mcbogga on Oct 29, 2020 19:47:33 GMT
I would have nothing against trying a PRO tourney or allowing splash shot with clubs other than LW from rough.
Maybe allowing pro clubs until the player shoots a tournament at -4 or better?
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Post by jeff on Oct 29, 2020 21:47:46 GMT
I will happily follow whatever new or modified rules are adopted for evaluation or adopted permanently.
I agree with Paul in that Pro difficulty is too easy. I play some Matchmaking online and I also have no fear on any of my drives or approach shots. And I shoot a lot better: -3 to -5 per 9 holes compared to +3 to +5 on a good day in USE.
If any shot from anywhere is too broad a relaxation of USE rules, then some kind of compromise like Robert suggested suits me.
Bottom line: I’m good regardless, but a change is definitely in order to keep interest in the society and the game.
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Post by jeff on Oct 29, 2020 21:53:55 GMT
In TST YOYO Championship, Sloaner had 81% fairway, 87,5% GIR, 1,39 putts pr hole, and 89% scrambling -44 total score winning with 8 strokes. This is just insane. How does he pull that off? He’s probably Lewis Hamilton or Max Verstappen in disguise. 🏎 |
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Leon
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Post by Leon on Oct 30, 2020 9:09:57 GMT
andersnm , hammers1man Soooo, just for grins I did a comparison test. First I dropped the purple Callaway clubs and picked up the Silver Ben Hogan's. I went to the driving range and recalibrated my swing. I decided to play Augusta again with our Tournament R1 conditions. These are probably the best two rounds I've played on 2k21. The first round was with Master difficulty. The second round was with Pro difficulty. USE settings and rules for both rounds. Of course there was no swing glitch and no pressure these two rounds. Notice the stats and scores are almost identical between Master and Pro. I was surprised, then it occurred to me. By dropping to the Silver clubs my swing plane and forgiveness were close to pro difficulty anyway. A better comparison would have been to use the purple clubs. One thing is for sure. If I can shoot this well on Augusta in these conditions (high winds, very fast greens) I will stay with the silver Ben Hogan clubs and sink or swim with them. I will also shut up about Pro difficulty unless everyone wants to switch. From what I've read it doesn't sound like Pro is the way to go. Master Difficulty [img src="https://i.ibb.co/ZxwRgWj/Master.jpg [/img]" style="max-width:100%;" alt=""] [img alt="" src="https://i.ibb.co/0cWftb2/Master-Stats.jpg[/img]" style="max-width:100%;"] Pro Difficulty [img style="max-width:100%;" src="https://i.ibb.co/XYjxbqM/Pro-Stats.jpg[/img]" alt=""] [img alt="" style="max-width:100%;" src="https://i.ibb.co/T1NztDw/Pro.jpg[/img]"] [/quote] Mentality/psychology is such a huge part of it as well, I think. The margin of error is very small with masters on this game, and if things start falling apart, it goes badly wrong. But, at the same time, if you get on a roll, it can almost become "easy." I'm also feeling more and more that this thing with like momentum induced "luck" is a real thing. Haven't seen people talk much about that recently, feels real to me. Like you know when a couple of putts drop, and then they all seem to start dropping, or the opposite, where you start bad and then every putt seems to lip out or just miss. (You also see something similar with approach shots.) Maybe it's all my imagination, and just how I feel about my rounds. Anyway, I'm not enjoying the game much at the moment. Was playing crap recently, decided to start this tournament, and played well. Go figure. Probably played without pressure. I think maybe people have decided it's impossible to play well on these courses, with these rules, and it affects their game. Or maybe the momentum thing is real, and a couple of bad holes at the start REALLY screws up the rest of the round. |
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Leon
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Post by Leon on Oct 30, 2020 9:13:37 GMT
I would have nothing against trying a PRO tourney or allowing splash shot with clubs other than LW from rough. Maybe allowing pro clubs until the player shoots a tournament at -4 or better? Getting close to a green, where a chip shot is not possible, and then having no available shot is really starting to annoy me now. (To me, having a 15-30yd shot and using a pitch shot does not count, despite it being technically possible...) |
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Post by hammers1man on Oct 30, 2020 10:05:54 GMT
I would have nothing against trying a PRO tourney or allowing splash shot with clubs other than LW from rough. Maybe allowing pro clubs until the player shoots a tournament at -4 or better? Getting close to a green, where a chip shots is not possible, and then having no available shot is really starting to annoy me now. (To me, having a 15-30yd shot and using a pitch shot does not count, despite it being technically possible...) Not only is the pitch shot possible from that distance it is quite effective with practice. Augusta round 1,I pitched up and down twice from those distances and also pitched in from 30 yards for eagle on hole 13. |
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Leon
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Post by Leon on Oct 30, 2020 11:20:35 GMT
Getting close to a green, where a chip shots is not possible, and then having no available shot is really starting to annoy me now. (To me, having a 15-30yd shot and using a pitch shot does not count, despite it being technically possible...) Not only is the pitch shot possible from that distance it is quite effective with practice. Augusta round 1,I pitched up and down twice from those distances and also pitched in from 30 yards for eagle on hole 13. I know it's possible and I know it can, with loads of boring practice, be possible. But I hate it. Having a fraction of a second difference between hitting it 20yds and 52yds is not a good representation of golf, in my opinion. In real life, you'd just hit it softer. Not an easy shot, but VERY easy to not hit it 52yds. And I find this really annoying. I'm not going to spend ages learning how to do it. I have no motivation for that. I've also said many times, I understand why splash is banned. My preference would be to have it in but, to me, the choice is between 2 rubbish outcomes, whereas for you, you like the challenge of getting the pitch right. I'm happy to accept the way things are, but it's one of the things taking enjoyment out of it for me... |
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Post by hammers1man on Oct 30, 2020 11:43:05 GMT
Not only is the pitch shot possible from that distance it is quite effective with practice. Augusta round 1,I pitched up and down twice from those distances and also pitched in from 30 yards for eagle on hole 13. I know it's possible and I know it can, with loads of boring practice, be possible. But I hate it. Having a fraction of a second difference between hitting it 20yds and 52yds is not a good representation of golf, in my opinion. In real life, you'd just hit it softer. Not an easy shot, but VERY easy to not hit it 52yds. And I find this really annoying. I'm not going to spend ages learning how to do it. I have no motivation for that. I've also said many times, I understand why splash is banned. My preference would be to have it in but, to me, the choice is between 2 rubbish outcomes, whereas for you, you like the challenge of getting the pitch right. I'm happy to accept the way things are, but it's one of the things taking enjoyment out of it for me... This is why I have said it before, the pitch backswing needs to be slowed down as it is way too fast on 100% intent for pitch shots. We can do this by pulling the left stick back to a more comfortable backswing speed. Then the difference between 20 and 52 yards becomes much bigger and much more manageable to judge . If you set percentage only for marker on a practice round and pull back that percentage from 100 to 80% or even 70% you will see exactly what I mean. |
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