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Post by paddyjk19 on Sept 22, 2020 18:57:59 GMT
Depends on how you hit that lofted shot. The shallow AoA slight backwards shaft lean, slight open face LW is one of the spiniest shots available around the green. Isn't that different from a bunker shot though? My problem with the LW splash in the game is it seems to react the same no matter the lie, rough fairway or sand. We all know there will be little spin from heavy rough but it will land softer apart from what I witnessed at Winged Foot on Sunday but they were firm and fast greens. Common misconception with bunker shots, a lot of people think it’s about getting steep with the AoA but actually you want to be shallow with maximum loft. Spin loft as an equation is the angle between the AoA and the dynamic loft at impact, the larger the angle the greater the spin RPM. In short a lofted high spinning shot is the same on turf as in sand but in the grass there are other elements that reduce spin such as moisture in the grass through impact |
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Post by mcbogga on Sept 22, 2020 20:14:53 GMT
Yep! And if you pick it agressively just right off a dry tight lie in the fairway the grooves just grip and it comes out with that fast low flight and just one hops, even from within 20 yds. Poetry.
The "thud-splash" slam the sole down in a bunker is different, but is that shot even widely used anymore? Just as a speciality shot, right? Too unpredictable.
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Post by hammers1man on Sept 22, 2020 20:22:30 GMT
Tiger practicing with different shots from medium and light rough.
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Post by hammers1man on Sept 22, 2020 20:29:40 GMT
I'll just say if my beef with the splash LW especially is it is too easy and not punishing enough for a highly skilled shot.With the pitch I really have to think for the partial. Splash hitting a 90 to 92 percent (which is easy) I wasn't even thinking about and hit to 3 foot from up to 25 yards. Up the firmness and green speed even the LW splash has a bit of difficulty but that spin and check out of heavy rough is still arcade to me. Can we ban the LW splash and just have SW upwards?
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Post by andersnm on Sept 22, 2020 20:30:41 GMT
Isn't that different from a bunker shot though? My problem with the LW splash in the game is it seems to react the same no matter the lie, rough fairway or sand. We all know there will be little spin from heavy rough but it will land softer apart from what I witnessed at Winged Foot on Sunday but they were firm and fast greens. Common misconception with bunker shots, a lot of people think it’s about getting steep with the AoA but actually you want to be shallow with maximum loft. Spin loft as an equation is the angle between the AoA and the dynamic loft at impact, the larger the angle the greater the spin RPM. In short a lofted high spinning shot is the same on turf as in sand but in the grass there are other elements that reduce spin such as moisture in the grass through impact Impact conditions, and conditions on your grooves are pretty important for spin numbers. And this is why you need to have clean ball contact to achieve much spin. You can actually buy a no groove wedge - and it is amazing how much spin you loose with that. And that means you need to hit the ball before the turf to get spin. The low shot high spinning pitch that Robert talks about is just that - you hit aggresive with good ball contact. You can't hit behind the ball to achieve that - as a splash shot is. Splash - hitting hard behind the ball so the club gets underneath the ball to get it to pop up - is just not giving you much spin. High trajectory, and soft landing, yes - but not spin. That kind of shot, and the flop, uses trajectory to get the ball to stop - not spin. And those shots are high risk - duffing and blading the ball is a real chance even for good players. |
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Post by hammers1man on Sept 22, 2020 20:34:54 GMT
Common misconception with bunker shots, a lot of people think it’s about getting steep with the AoA but actually you want to be shallow with maximum loft. Spin loft as an equation is the angle between the AoA and the dynamic loft at impact, the larger the angle the greater the spin RPM. In short a lofted high spinning shot is the same on turf as in sand but in the grass there are other elements that reduce spin such as moisture in the grass through impact Impact conditions, and conditions on your grooves are pretty important for spin numbers. And this is why you need to have clean ball contact to achieve much spin. You can actually buy a no groove wedge - and it is amazing how much spin you loose with that. And that means you need to hit the ball before the turf to get spin. The low shot high spinning pitch that Robert talks about is just that - you hit aggresive with good ball contact. You can't hit behind the ball to achieve that - as a splash shot is. Splash - hitting hard behind the ball so the club gets underneath the ball to get it to pop up - is just not giving you much spin. High trajectory, and soft landing, yes - but not spin. That kind of shot, and the flop, uses trajectory to get the ball to stop - not spin. And those shots are high risk - duffing and blading the ball is a real chance even for good players. Correct me if I am wrong but hasn't the game got this backwards, off tempo pitch shots are punished severely but a shot where opening up the club face produce more club head speed is less risk. Am I missing something? |
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Post by paddyjk19 on Sept 22, 2020 20:38:17 GMT
Yep! And if you pick it agressively just right off a dry tight lie in the fairway the grooves just grip and it comes out with that fast low flight and just one hops, even from within 20 yds. Poetry. The "thud-splash" slam the sole down in a bunker is different, but is that shot even widely used anymore? Just as a speciality shot, right? Too unpredictable. Yes! That’s why links turf is great for the low hover spin shot! With bunkers the technique top guys use is no different, they are shallow still but lower the bottom of their swing arc by wife stance and sitting down into the stance, this ensures sand first contact but only a shallow slice of sand = high soft shot |
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Post by paddyjk19 on Sept 22, 2020 20:43:07 GMT
Common misconception with bunker shots, a lot of people think it’s about getting steep with the AoA but actually you want to be shallow with maximum loft. Spin loft as an equation is the angle between the AoA and the dynamic loft at impact, the larger the angle the greater the spin RPM. In short a lofted high spinning shot is the same on turf as in sand but in the grass there are other elements that reduce spin such as moisture in the grass through impact Impact conditions, and conditions on your grooves are pretty important for spin numbers. And this is why you need to have clean ball contact to achieve much spin. You can actually buy a no groove wedge - and it is amazing how much spin you loose with that. And that means you need to hit the ball before the turf to get spin. The low shot high spinning pitch that Robert talks about is just that - you hit aggresive with good ball contact. You can't hit behind the ball to achieve that - as a splash shot is. Splash - hitting hard behind the ball so the club gets underneath the ball to get it to pop up - is just not giving you much spin. High trajectory, and soft landing, yes - but not spin. That kind of shot, and the flop, uses trajectory to get the ball to stop - not spin. And those shots are high risk - duffing and blading the ball is a real chance even for good players. 85% correct, the part about grooves and spin is bang on, as is the difference between drop and stop and actual high spin, however there is a very strong school of thought that allows wider margin for error with impact; If your swing arc bottom is shallow and wide plus if you don’t have dynamic shaft lean at impact, this allows you to present the bounce and even if you hit an inch behind the ball, the club will run along the turn rather than digging in which actually gives you same total distance; Ball first will fly further with more grip and height Catching an inch behind will he shorter flight, lower and roll out more. It basically gives you two chances to get the same total distance and eliminates the risk of farting and thinning your lofted chips and pitches |
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Post by hammers1man on Sept 22, 2020 20:48:50 GMT
I bit the bullet guys and had a couple of lessons the last couple of weeks. Realised why I don't hit my woods as well as my irons. Weak left hand grip so I have had to compensate my upper swing to hit my irons which I felt I had two different swings for shorter and longer shafts. My instructor said my tempo is superb and could not believe how well I get the club face square on impact. All of a suddon my left arm is straighter my right arm is bent at the right angle and my 9 iron goes from a 120 carry to a 130 carry  . Why did I wait so long for lessons. Swing feels different but controlled at the top and I am working my legs so much more. |
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Post by paddyjk19 on Sept 22, 2020 20:49:58 GMT
Impact conditions, and conditions on your grooves are pretty important for spin numbers. And this is why you need to have clean ball contact to achieve much spin. You can actually buy a no groove wedge - and it is amazing how much spin you loose with that. And that means you need to hit the ball before the turf to get spin. The low shot high spinning pitch that Robert talks about is just that - you hit aggresive with good ball contact. You can't hit behind the ball to achieve that - as a splash shot is. Splash - hitting hard behind the ball so the club gets underneath the ball to get it to pop up - is just not giving you much spin. High trajectory, and soft landing, yes - but not spin. That kind of shot, and the flop, uses trajectory to get the ball to stop - not spin. And those shots are high risk - duffing and blading the ball is a real chance even for good players. Correct me if I am wrong but hasn't the game got this backwards, off tempo pitch shots are punished severely but a shot where opening up the club face produce more club head speed is less risk. Am I missing something? The game has definitely got the two shots the wrong way round with forgiveness for sure, splash / flop should be slightly higher risk than pitch, which is the right amount of difficulty, it’s just a shame splash and flop aren’t harder. I’m 5-6 shots better with grids and splash shots enabled! Shot -11 through two rounds on TST this week because I get up and down every time with splash, too easy |
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Post by hammers1man on Sept 22, 2020 20:54:50 GMT
Impact conditions, and conditions on your grooves are pretty important for spin numbers. And this is why you need to have clean ball contact to achieve much spin. You can actually buy a no groove wedge - and it is amazing how much spin you loose with that. And that means you need to hit the ball before the turf to get spin. The low shot high spinning pitch that Robert talks about is just that - you hit aggresive with good ball contact. You can't hit behind the ball to achieve that - as a splash shot is. Splash - hitting hard behind the ball so the club gets underneath the ball to get it to pop up - is just not giving you much spin. High trajectory, and soft landing, yes - but not spin. That kind of shot, and the flop, uses trajectory to get the ball to stop - not spin. And those shots are high risk - duffing and blading the ball is a real chance even for good players. 85% correct, the part about grooves and spin is bang on, as is the difference between drop and stop and actual high spin, however there is a very strong school of thought that allows wider margin for error with impact; If your swing arc bottom is shallow and wide plus if you don’t have dynamic shaft lean at impact, this allows you to present the bounce and even if you hit an inch behind the ball, the club will run along the turn rather than digging in which actually gives you same total distance; Ball first will fly further with more grip and height Catching an inch behind will he shorter flight, lower and roll out more. It basically gives you two chances to get the same total distance and eliminates the risk of farting and thinning your lofted chips and pitches Had a good convo with my PGA instructor, got talking about Stoke Park and told me how great a course it is also the course I was suppose to play now Princes Golf Club which I was suppose to play right now, top course and bang next RSJ's. |
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Post by andersnm on Sept 22, 2020 20:57:30 GMT
Impact conditions, and conditions on your grooves are pretty important for spin numbers. And this is why you need to have clean ball contact to achieve much spin. You can actually buy a no groove wedge - and it is amazing how much spin you loose with that. And that means you need to hit the ball before the turf to get spin. The low shot high spinning pitch that Robert talks about is just that - you hit aggresive with good ball contact. You can't hit behind the ball to achieve that - as a splash shot is. Splash - hitting hard behind the ball so the club gets underneath the ball to get it to pop up - is just not giving you much spin. High trajectory, and soft landing, yes - but not spin. That kind of shot, and the flop, uses trajectory to get the ball to stop - not spin. And those shots are high risk - duffing and blading the ball is a real chance even for good players. 85% correct, the part about grooves and spin is bang on, as is the difference between drop and stop and actual high spin, however there is a very strong school of thought that allows wider margin for error with impact; If your swing arc bottom is shallow and wide plus if you don’t have dynamic shaft lean at impact, this allows you to present the bounce and even if you hit an inch behind the ball, the club will run along the turn rather than digging in which actually gives you same total distance; Ball first will fly further with more grip and height Catching an inch behind will he shorter flight, lower and roll out more. It basically gives you two chances to get the same total distance and eliminates the risk of farting and thinning your lofted chips and pitches Yeah, in normal circumstances you choose a technique which gives the best margin for error - and having a wedge with a bounce suited for the task is important. However - the best amount of bounce will differe from golfer to golfer, and from different turf conditions. Dry hard turf - too much bounce, and you get a blade pretty quick if you are not spot on (why I rarely open my club, which increases the bounce, on such conditions - if I do, I need to hit a splash kind of shot where I hit behind the ball to get the club deep enough). The way I do it, is to adjust my weight distribution on my stance - so if I have soft conditions, I want to come in more shallow to get increased bounce, and on hard turf, I lean forward to avoid the bounce getting the leading edge too high so I blade the ball. I think this is one of the reasons many of my fellow amateurs dread chipping from hard and dry turf. I see too many times a blade shooting over the green on those shots. So I keep the same technique on my chips, pitches - I just adjust my stance. So I agree - the shallow approach is best in most circumstances - but if you get to hard soil where the bounce can get the leading edge too high if you hit shallow - I would recommend practicing hitting with lean and aggressive solid ball contact. Either way - practicing to get good ball contact on all shots is best. And there will come a time when you need to use trajectory instead of spin to have a chance to have the ball to stop - and it is on these occasions that the flop and splash may be appropriate. And out of rough may just be the time you need to do that - since the grass will make it very hard to get good ball contact to give you the spin you need - so it is better to use trajectory. |
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Post by hammers1man on Sept 22, 2020 20:58:41 GMT
Correct me if I am wrong but hasn't the game got this backwards, off tempo pitch shots are punished severely but a shot where opening up the club face produce more club head speed is less risk. Am I missing something? The game has definitely got the two shots the wrong way round with forgiveness for sure, splash / flop should be slightly higher risk than pitch, which is the right amount of difficulty, it’s just a shame splash and flop aren’t harder. I’m 5-6 shots better with grids and splash shots enabled! Shot -11 through two rounds on TST this week because I get up and down every time with splash, too easy I am all for having different shots but as Anders and Robert said the short game if off, I would rather too hard than too easy. Group choice including members, everyone has their say on this matter. |
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Post by andersnm on Sept 22, 2020 21:02:23 GMT
Correct me if I am wrong but hasn't the game got this backwards, off tempo pitch shots are punished severely but a shot where opening up the club face produce more club head speed is less risk. Am I missing something? The game has definitely got the two shots the wrong way round with forgiveness for sure, splash / flop should be slightly higher risk than pitch, which is the right amount of difficulty, it’s just a shame splash and flop aren’t harder. I’m 5-6 shots better with grids and splash shots enabled! Shot -11 through two rounds on TST this week because I get up and down every time with splash, too easy Just another reason to keep the ban on splash outside bunkers. Scrambling was the stat last season that was most unrealistic in USE. |
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Post by hammers1man on Sept 22, 2020 21:07:16 GMT
The game has definitely got the two shots the wrong way round with forgiveness for sure, splash / flop should be slightly higher risk than pitch, which is the right amount of difficulty, it’s just a shame splash and flop aren’t harder. I’m 5-6 shots better with grids and splash shots enabled! Shot -11 through two rounds on TST this week because I get up and down every time with splash, too easy Just another reason to keep the ban on splash outside bunkers. Scrambling was the stat last season that was most unrealistic in USE. We don't ban the high or low trajectory so we can actually manipulate the pitch, early days. |
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. Why did I wait so long for lessons. Swing feels different but controlled at the top and I am working my legs so much more.