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Post by hammers1man on May 26, 2020 17:31:58 GMT
It not so much about struggling on slow greens it's how realistic they are, no course would go from 187 to 101 in a real life round no matter how much rain we had also a course doesn't firm and dry up from a 101 to a 187. Not played 101 before but 122 is way too slow for top courses imo, 144 does make sloping greens more playable I don't think we have to go slower. I do think we shouldn't be jumping from very fast to very slow in a tournament or vice versa because it is unrealistic. Just my view on green speeds, TGC2's 187 were much faster than what we have now, HB toned it down a bit for this game. I agree completely that this weeks setup is unrealistic. I did not say anything in the admin section - but I did have a reaction when the conditions came - that this was over the top. But, I stand by that I think that the norm should be on the more moderate side of things. Usualy, default speed is good for the course - and I for one like to stick to the default speed - but we had the example of Hague that where too fast. So when in doubt, medium or fast is a good speed overall for the vast majority of courses. I agree but it depend on the course, Oakmont is lightening fast irl so is Augusta for example. Links courses should be slower, maybe fast speed as a maximum. |
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Post by LKeet6 on May 26, 2020 17:32:21 GMT
I agree with josia, and also agree going from very to opposite very is bit extreme, but just to point it's a fairly common occurrence to get dramatic changes in conditions from one day to the next; certainly from day 1 to day 4.
Rain and wind can very easily be zero one day and terrible the next. And that changes the conditions massively. Yes, maybe not from very slow greens to very fast, but not far off it.
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Post by andersnm on May 26, 2020 17:40:40 GMT
I agree completely that this weeks setup is unrealistic. I did not say anything in the admin section - but I did have a reaction when the conditions came - that this was over the top. But, I stand by that I think that the norm should be on the more moderate side of things. Usualy, default speed is good for the course - and I for one like to stick to the default speed - but we had the example of Hague that where too fast. So when in doubt, medium or fast is a good speed overall for the vast majority of courses. I agree but it depend on the course, Oakmont is lightening fast irl so is Augusta for example. Links courses should be slower, maybe fast speed as a maximum. We play on Augusta once a year - so I think we can live with very fast greens on that tournament - the same for Oakmont. I totaly back up Josia in this - that we also need to have some slower conditions some weeks in the season. And my point; for the norm, to not overdo the "very" settings. |
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Post by hammers1man on May 26, 2020 17:42:55 GMT
I will chime in with a point from the other side. I like the slow greens and hate the fast ones. Now I do understand the point of going from one extreme to the other between two adjacent rounds, and it not being realistic. That makes perfect sense. But why not do a whole 4 rounds with slow greens? Wouldn't that be realistic if something happened at the course to slow them down a lot that week, that it would be slow the whole time, varying only by one stage each round?
Just because some prefer fast greens don't mean (to me) that we shouldn't do any slow ones. I hate fast greens, yet I try to go out and play them when they pop up here. Paul made the comment earlier in the thread that Josia is on fire, something has him doing well. Its the fact that I simply play better with slow greens and higher winds, always have. I'm not sure, but I think it has to do with a lot of people have this game down to a science, they know what to do to get the ball close, and when random things that aren't expected happen, it throws their science off a bit. Since I just walk up and hit, and go more by feeling, the random things don't affect me as much, because I'm not calculating anything, I'm just still going by whatever feeling I have, and the higher the winds, the more interesting it simply is. As for the greens, I just don't have a good feel for the fast ones, I prefer slower. I do recall you played well in the first round with very fast greens Josia  . We all have our preference in green speed, I prefer faster greens as does Gav. I would like to see green speeds that roughly match the real course's stimpmeter reading whether that's slow or fast. Also I am not trying to say we should not have different green speeds for each round but gradual changes to firm/soft and speed because of condition over the tournament. As the admin know I tend to use the default green speed and firmness when I pick conditions, not a fan of 144 to 150's as I tend to give too much break not because I can't get the distance pace. |
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Post by hammers1man on May 26, 2020 18:01:03 GMT
I agree with josia, and also agree going from very to opposite very is bit extreme, but just to point it's a fairly common occurrence to get dramatic changes in conditions from one day to the next; certainly from day 1 to day 4. Rain and wind can very easily be zero one day and terrible the next. And that changes the conditions massively. Yes, maybe not from very slow greens to very fast, but not far off it. Very strong wind would firm the course up and make the greens faster over time as will high temperatures. Surface water will slow the greens down quite a bit, as will the PGA watering them soften them up. No problem playing very high winds but it should be used sparingly especially in the US as they don't get those conditions week in week out. Still stick to my opinion none of the courses we are playing would be slow 122 or very slow 101 irl. |
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Post by andersnm on May 26, 2020 18:16:22 GMT
Round 3: Bit of a struggle to hit the fairway (been so also on round 1 and 2) was the main problem.  |
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Post by LKeet6 on May 26, 2020 18:16:36 GMT
I agree with josia, and also agree going from very to opposite very is bit extreme, but just to point it's a fairly common occurrence to get dramatic changes in conditions from one day to the next; certainly from day 1 to day 4. Rain and wind can very easily be zero one day and terrible the next. And that changes the conditions massively. Yes, maybe not from very slow greens to very fast, but not far off it. Very strong wind would firm the course up and make the greens faster over time as will high temperatures. Surface water will slow the greens down quite a bit, as will the PGA watering them soften them up. No problem playing very high winds but it should be used sparingly especially in the US as they don't get those conditions week in week out. Still stick to my opinion none of the courses we are playing would be slow 122 or very slow 101 irl. I don't know enough about green speeds, in game or real life, so I'll trust you on that. Defo agree that moderate is a very noticeable change from VF though. I love doing a rainy day at Augusta and going soft and moderate greens next day, then windy the next day and back to default speed. That feels realistic to me. |
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Post by hammers1man on May 26, 2020 18:21:24 GMT
Very strong wind would firm the course up and make the greens faster over time as will high temperatures. Surface water will slow the greens down quite a bit, as will the PGA watering them soften them up. No problem playing very high winds but it should be used sparingly especially in the US as they don't get those conditions week in week out. Still stick to my opinion none of the courses we are playing would be slow 122 or very slow 101 irl. I don't know enough about green speeds, in game or real life, so I'll trust you on that. Defo agree that moderate is a very noticeable change from VF though. I love doing a rainy day at Augusta and going soft and moderate greens next day, then windy the next day and back to default speed. That feels realistic to me. The thing is even if you had a rainy day at Augusta it wouldn't slow the greens down a huge amount for the next day as these courses drain so well. Surface water really can slow the greens down, so if it is pissing it down it might make Augusta greens moderate when playing in the rain. |
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Post by andersnm on May 26, 2020 18:24:39 GMT
I agree with josia, and also agree going from very to opposite very is bit extreme, but just to point it's a fairly common occurrence to get dramatic changes in conditions from one day to the next; certainly from day 1 to day 4. Rain and wind can very easily be zero one day and terrible the next. And that changes the conditions massively. Yes, maybe not from very slow greens to very fast, but not far off it. Very strong wind would firm the course up and make the greens faster over time as will high temperatures. Surface water will slow the greens down quite a bit, as will the PGA watering them soften them up. No problem playing very high winds but it should be used sparingly especially in the US as they don't get those conditions week in week out. Still stick to my opinion none of the courses we are playing would be slow 122 or very slow 101 irl. To summarize what impact green speed: - grass length. Longer grass is slower due to friction. - Humidity - how dry or wet the surface is. Dry is faster, wet is slower. Wind dry up the surface, thus making the green faster. But wind in itself do not mean the greens are fast, because you can have longer grass on the green. Slow is 119 in this game btw. Also - in real life, we encounter the fact that the way the grass grow alters the speed. So when you put with grass grain, it is faster, and against the grass grain it is slower. Also, in real life - there is different grass types that have different grains and speeds. Overall much more complex than the game. This is also important in chipping out of rough, if you have the grass growing against you in some thick rough, that is making the chip much much harder compared to the grass grain with you. |
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Post by LKeet6 on May 26, 2020 18:43:13 GMT
I don't know enough about green speeds, in game or real life, so I'll trust you on that. Defo agree that moderate is a very noticeable change from VF though. I love doing a rainy day at Augusta and going soft and moderate greens next day, then windy the next day and back to default speed. That feels realistic to me. The thing is even if you had a rainy day at Augusta it wouldn't slow the greens down a huge amount for the next day as these courses drain so well. Surface water really can slow the greens down, so if it is pissing it down it might make Augusta greens moderate when playing in the rain. Yeah, I'm talking when they have 1-2 days continuous, or heavy, rain. You see it maybe every 2-4 years at Augusta? |
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Post by hammers1man on May 26, 2020 19:30:26 GMT
Round 2 with the Katt who's played some great golf, enjoyed the testing conditions and super slow greens 3 birdies to start, a tricky left to righter 8 foot for birdie on 1 helped get my eye on the green break , came up really short on a couple of long putts ,it's as if the ball slams the breaks on suddenly, my medium and short putting was very solid as was the short game. Highlights Hole 2 this 95% PW with a massive tail wind, watch how low the apex is for a PW, wow!!! Hole 3 got the pace just right for this 32 footer. Hole 17 just slammed the pin with this chip, Josia was so close to slam dunking his bunker shot also..  |
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Post by ray on May 27, 2020 0:31:22 GMT
It’s so much easier to talk about green speeds in metric. Very fast is 57, very slow is 38.
I like 50m greens. My eye seems to read the roll better. On slow greens I overadjust and end up missing both sides of the hole, on super fast I’m normally low side if I see the break at all.
Lots happening IRL. I’m moving 3,600km back to the east coast in a month or three. My stepdad has dementia and mum is struggling with the relentlessness of being his carer 24/7. It will prolong his time at home if I’m there to give mum a break once or twice a week and I really enjoy his company so it’s win/win. I also have some major surgeries coming up and would rather have them in my home state, so I’ve convinced the misso her (our) boys (20 and 22) don’t need us here as much as I need to be over east. She’s a good egg my misso.
I’ll continue playing my 4 rounds here and contributing in the forum, but I’m struggling to be motivated for the game. It’s only the clubhouse feel we’re starting to generate that’s keeping me going. Good work on that guys 👍
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Post by artvandelay on May 27, 2020 2:28:50 GMT
It’s so much easier to talk about green speeds in metric. Very fast is 57, very slow is 38. I like 50m greens. My eye seems to read the roll better. On slow greens I overadjust and end up missing both sides of the hole, on super fast I’m normally low side if I see the break at all. Lots happening IRL. I’m moving 3,600km back to the east coast in a month or three. My stepdad has dementia and mum is struggling with the relentlessness of being his carer 24/7. It will prolong his time at home if I’m there to give mum a break once or twice a week and I really enjoy his company so it’s win/win. I also have some major surgeries coming up and would rather have them in my home state, so I’ve convinced the misso her (our) boys (20 and 22) don’t need us here as much as I need to be over east. She’s a good egg my misso. I’ll continue playing my 4 rounds here and contributing in the forum, but I’m struggling to be motivated for the game. It’s only the clubhouse feel we’re starting to generate that’s keeping me going. Good work on that guys 👍 YOU are a good egg Ray, to help take care of your Dad like that. I wish you the best. |
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Post by LKeet6 on May 27, 2020 10:37:34 GMT
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Post by Tuffguts on May 27, 2020 11:23:24 GMT
9 under his handicap after 2 rounds on a tricky course. Glad I'm not matched up with him this week. Something has got Josia fired up this week😉 Guess who is matched up with him in round 1 and 3? (Also, Tuffguts - 11 strokes on that second round.. oh, that is going to be tough!). I just had a little practice on the very slow and soft conditions - and it is not easy with the very high winds. I understand some of the critics that has come on very high winds on TGC tours - I do have a feeling of more random effect on that condition compared to high. Not that I complain - usualy  Mmmmmm, tough ask indeed. Got the rough end of the @sirwade pineapple as well....a 64 in round 3 and I give him 4 shots. A couple of sub-60's required then....bring it on!! |
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. We all have our preference in green speed, I prefer faster greens as does Gav. I would like to see green speeds that roughly match the real course's stimpmeter reading whether that's slow or fast. Also I am not trying to say we should not have different green speeds for each round but gradual changes to firm/soft and speed because of condition over the tournament. As the admin know I tend to use the default green speed and firmness when I pick conditions, not a fan of 144 to 150's as I tend to give too much break not because I can't get the distance pace.
