|
|
Post by hammers1man on Jan 17, 2020 15:34:34 GMT
The other thing in favour of Pro clubs is the distances are more realistic, and courses naturally get their teeth back. Our driving distances are way above PGA averages I’d think. As Anders rightly corrected me when I said Master clubs are too long. They are an average of a PGA pro carry distance. Pro clubs would be more your shorter hitter like Jim Furyk or Luke Donald |
|
|
|
Post by ray on Jan 17, 2020 15:46:04 GMT
The other thing in favour of Pro clubs is the distances are more realistic, and courses naturally get their teeth back. Our driving distances are way above PGA averages I’d think. As Anders rightly corrected me when I said Master clubs are too long. They are an average of a PGA pro carry distance. Pro clubs would be more your shorter hitter like Jim Furyk or Luke Donald I think those averages are skewed by the gorillas out there. I personally prefer playing with Pro clubs in a way. I know I’ve never been beaten because of someone having faster internet or because they’re on a different platform with them, it feels more about judgement and less about execution. It’s certainly harder to hit off tempo, but it’s far from impossible. I’d love to see a trail. Not to change anything here, but to maybe add a parallel series. |
|
|
|
Post by LKeet6 on Jan 17, 2020 15:47:49 GMT
If people want to constantly rub the handicap leaderboard in my face, I'll accept that  But beyond that, I think changes such as awarding more points to xb1 and PC users would be a bit "controversial." We're all going out there and playing the same course, trying to play our best golf. My understanding is that PC is actually closer to PS4 than to xb1, and it really is xb1 that is suffering from a "significant" handicap here. (I've done quite a lot of reading on this on the forum. Another suggestion I've seen a lot, is that pro clubs equalise the whole issue. I really don't want to play the game with the lost distance, and I've heard people say it's almost impossible to hit off tempo, which sounds a bit wack. I would however be happy to try a test event with pro only clubs? Or a side event, could create a society? The obvious advantage could still be offset by playing USE style? Dunno, just an idea... I'm not putting that forward as something I'm super keen on, but something people might want to try? And I'd take part in the test... Pro clubs might make all platforms more equal difficulty wise. But then you ruin courses because like TGC1 it is too easy to hit the ball straight it becomes just about distance. I am not even sure I could manage a whole tournament playing them before I'd lose interest . In an ideal world all 3 platforms on master would have xbox tempo. That's why it is important that we bring back the handicap leaderboard where anyone could win each week. To me, PC tempo sounds the best. But yeah, agree with you on the rest... |
|
|
|
Post by andersnm on Jan 17, 2020 15:53:26 GMT
The other thing in favour of Pro clubs is the distances are more realistic, and courses naturally get their teeth back. Our driving distances are way above PGA averages I’d think. I do not agree. 285 yard carry with a driver is very realistic driving distance on tour. PGA Tour average total distance is 297 yards, and that is quite close to the 302 I get with the master clubs. The problem with "teeth from courses" and realism are not distance - it is accuracy. 75% fairways are at the very top on tour. Average on the PGA tour is 61,45%. How much do you see that even here on USE? Also, green in regulation average on the PGA tour are 69%. How many here are over that regurarly? I would never play anything on pro-clubs, so if that is the case - I'm out of here. |
|
|
|
Post by ray on Jan 17, 2020 15:57:44 GMT
The other thing in favour of Pro clubs is the distances are more realistic, and courses naturally get their teeth back. Our driving distances are way above PGA averages I’d think. I do not agree. 285 yard carry with a driver is very realistic driving distance on tour. PGA Tour average total distance is 297 yards, and that is quite close to the 302 I get with the master clubs. The problem with "teeth from courses" and realism are not distance - it is accuracy. 75% fairways are at the very top on tour. Average on the PGA tour is 61,45%. How much do you see that even here on USE? Also, green in regulation average on the PGA tour are 69%. How many here are over that regurarly? I would never play anything on pro-clubs, so if that is the case - I'm out of here. I agree it wouldn’t be a popular option, which is why I’d like it as our second society. Some would play. I certainly would and try to match it with folk without the faults HB made with parity. |
|
|
|
Post by ray on Jan 17, 2020 16:00:53 GMT
I also don’t doubt your facts RE distance. I suspect the accuracy of the average XB player would bring FIR down, but the top 100 XB players spreads all the way to CC-whatever. The top 100 PS guys are probably on the PGA or Euro at worst, the top 100 PC guys are probably no lower than KF.
We’re dealt an imperfect game. It’s ‘a’ way to level the playing field. I also realise it’s more likely to be XB folk that play.
|
|
|
|
Post by andersnm on Jan 17, 2020 16:13:23 GMT
As Anders rightly corrected me when I said Master clubs are too long. They are an average of a PGA pro carry distance. Pro clubs would be more your shorter hitter like Jim Furyk or Luke Donald I think those averages are skewed by the gorillas out there. I personally prefer playing with Pro clubs in a way. I know I’ve never been beaten because of someone having faster internet or because they’re on a different platform with them, it feels more about judgement and less about execution. It’s certainly harder to hit off tempo, but it’s far from impossible. I’d love to see a trail. Not to change anything here, but to maybe add a parallel series. There are according to the stats provided by the PGA ca 140 players driving at or longer than master clubs. (ofcourse there are alot more difference than you will ever see in any video golf game in real life). Since the problem with realism is accuracy and not distance - moving down in difficulty so we are all more accurate is not good for this society that wants things to be realistic. The scores would be very unrealistic low and it would be a game of just putting. I don't care if there are differences between platforms. There are also differences inside a platform - there are different controllers (I read on the TGCtours that some bought several controllers to see what is best even for PS4), some are using keyboard and mouse. This will never be perfect. You can't blame HB for the difference that the producers of the controllers etc are doing. Making all easier is not making the experience any better. And the key word is experience. I have never been interested in online golf gaming to be honest. I quickly saw how things went with Links 2003 and later with the TW series etc. Scores of -50 to -70 was common. This society is different. Here the goal is not to shoot unrealistic low, but to play the game as realistic as possible. For me, that means that we should play master clubs since they are the most realistic the game offers. Things are and never will be perfect. |
|
|
|
Post by andersnm on Jan 17, 2020 16:32:31 GMT
Just a comment on level playing field. There will never be a level playing field. Some are better than others, thats life.
That is why the HCP table is the best option to try to have as level playing field as possible, realising that even a hcp system is not completely flawless.
|
|
|
|
Post by LKeet6 on Jan 17, 2020 16:34:52 GMT
I think those averages are skewed by the gorillas out there. I personally prefer playing with Pro clubs in a way. I know I’ve never been beaten because of someone having faster internet or because they’re on a different platform with them, it feels more about judgement and less about execution. It’s certainly harder to hit off tempo, but it’s far from impossible. I’d love to see a trail. Not to change anything here, but to maybe add a parallel series. There are according to the stats provided by the PGA ca 140 players driving at or longer than master clubs. (ofcourse there are alot more difference than you will ever see in any video golf game in real life). Since the problem with realism is accuracy and not distance - moving down in difficulty so we are all more accurate is not good for this society that wants things to be realistic. The scores would be very unrealistic low and it would be a game of just putting. I don't care if there are differences between platforms. There are also differences inside a platform - there are different controllers (I read on the TGCtours that some bought several controllers to see what is best even for PS4), some are using keyboard and mouse. This will never be perfect. You can't blame HB for the difference that the producers of the controllers etc are doing. Making all easier is not making the experience any better. And the key word is experience. I have never been interested in online golf gaming to be honest. I quickly saw how things went with Links 2003 and later with the TW series etc. Scores of -50 to -70 was common. This society is different. Here the goal is not to shoot unrealistic low, but to play the game as realistic as possible. For me, that means that we should play master clubs since they are the most realistic the game offers. Things are and never will be perfect. First off mate, NOBODY is suggesting we switch to this, so you can relax about that  Maybe the word "trial" got you worried, but I just meant like a "test" to see what would happen. The differences between platform are WAY more than distances between controllers, to my understanding of things. And that difference IS HB's fault. The fact is there is no ideal fix to the problem. I don't agree that scores would absolutely go insanely low, or way lower than what we currently have. The loss of distance, and potentially playing approach shots with more roll out AND USE rules would be interesting, is all that is being said here. Also, as always, with any decision made here, we'd go with the majority, and it's already obvious (before the question was even posed!) That this idea would never have the majority behind it. I even said I probably didn't support it! Hence the idea of a trial, just for interest... |
|
|
|
Post by andersnm on Jan 17, 2020 16:57:40 GMT
Leon, I am not worried I just make my statement and argue for my opinion. If someone want a society for only pro-clubs with USE rules, they are ofcourse free to do so. All I am saying is that if USE is going only pro clubs to try to level the field, I am strongly opposed and will not participate in that. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2020 17:00:00 GMT
If people want to constantly rub the handicap leaderboard in my face, I'll accept that But beyond that, I think changes such as awarding more points to xb1 and PC users would be a bit "controversial." We're all going out there and playing the same course, trying to play our best golf. My understanding is that PC is actually closer to PS4 than to xb1, and it really is xb1 that is suffering from a "significant" handicap here. (I've done quite a lot of reading on this on the forum. Another suggestion I've seen a lot, is that pro clubs equalise the whole issue. I really don't want to play the game with the lost distance, and I've heard people say it's almost impossible to hit off tempo, which sounds a bit wack. I would however be happy to try a test event with pro only clubs? Or a side event, could create a society? The obvious advantage could still be offset by playing USE style? Dunno, just an idea... I'm not putting that forward as something I'm super keen on, but something people might want to try? And I'd take part in the test... I may have been misunderstood. i don't want any changes to current way how the standings are. I was asking for a separate "challenge" for the few Xbox players. Obviously, one day I'd love to be competitive against PC and PS4. This wouldn't mean playing more rounds between just Xbox players, but simply grouping the 4 rounds from the previous tourney and allocating points. |
|
|
|
Post by hammers1man on Jan 17, 2020 17:53:13 GMT
If people want to constantly rub the handicap leaderboard in my face, I'll accept that But beyond that, I think changes such as awarding more points to xb1 and PC users would be a bit "controversial." We're all going out there and playing the same course, trying to play our best golf. My understanding is that PC is actually closer to PS4 than to xb1, and it really is xb1 that is suffering from a "significant" handicap here. (I've done quite a lot of reading on this on the forum. Another suggestion I've seen a lot, is that pro clubs equalise the whole issue. I really don't want to play the game with the lost distance, and I've heard people say it's almost impossible to hit off tempo, which sounds a bit wack. I would however be happy to try a test event with pro only clubs? Or a side event, could create a society? The obvious advantage could still be offset by playing USE style? Dunno, just an idea... I'm not putting that forward as something I'm super keen on, but something people might want to try? And I'd take part in the test... I may have been misunderstood. i don't want any changes to current way how the standings are. I was asking for a separate "challenge" for the few Xbox players. Obviously, one day I'd love to be competitive against PC and PS4. This wouldn't mean playing more rounds between just Xbox players, but simply grouping the 4 rounds from the previous tourney and allocating points. A few years ago I was part of TST Matt's RGT tour when we all played TGC1 as sim as possible (long before the loft box lol). We had countless admin discussions about making it more competitive for people low down on the leaderboad, we had 30 or so members. Amateur medals etc etc, the most important thing to me is that everyone of our members didn't feel like they made up the numbers. I so much encourage everyone to post your great putts, hole outs, aces, I can't speak for everyone else but I want to see great shots here. A USE shot of the week is something I'd love to see here, even from a member vote(how cool would it be to win shot of the week). I know it can be hard work to post up the shots but a shot of the week anyone can win  I understand that the platforms are not equal in difficulty but unfortunately there is nothing we can do about that, but remember this is about EXPIERINCE and a handicap leaderboard is something that gives every single player a chance not only to win but play above their own ability. As someone who follows all our players progress, I miss members like Jeff and Jay and it's good to see Jeff back, I have messaged Jay and hope he returns to the PC leaderboards |
|
|
|
Post by LKeet6 on Jan 17, 2020 18:13:39 GMT
The handicap leaderboard has been a GREAT addition in my opinion. It doesn't solve the platform discrepancy, but nothing does, as we've all agreed. I LOVE the shot of the week idea. We've got team and partner events in the pipeline, where I imagine it will be a top half and bottom half of leaderboard pairings. We could do an end of season awards thing, or a player of the month, where like the person who has done best on the handicap board would be the top contender, along with maybe someone who had a win or top 5 out of nowhere Etc etc. We're a great community and we'll keep improving |
|
|
|
Post by hammers1man on Jan 17, 2020 18:54:16 GMT
Just want to say if Ray or anyone else want to start up societies playing pro clubs with USE settings, I have no problem if they want to post up scores and standings here. We are not limited to a thread anymore,so crack on guys |
|
|
|
Post by al on Jan 17, 2020 20:54:50 GMT
Not interested myself, I find the master clubs are too easy!
I’m cool with whatever decided upon. I am a mere USE pawn!
🍷🍷🍷🍷👹👍🤮
|
|
