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Post by ray on Jan 8, 2020 2:18:30 GMT
Guys.
Plenty of people have donated plenty of money, and we WILL rebuild. I’m not asking anyone for anything other than to maybe change your attitude towards recycling, using less fossil fuels, being aware of the damage that’s been done to our planet and repairing what you can where you can (plant a tree). My plan is to visit the fire ravaged towns when they’re rebuilding and supporting the local businesses. I’ll eat, drink and be merry at their pub, I’ll fill my car at their servo and I’ll eat again at their cafes. Do what you can 👍
We’re at the pointy end of the climate crisis. We’re a dry and barren land for the most part, the earth warming has already affected us, and quite a few of our pacific island neighbors. I’m fortunate to live by the beach in a suburban setting so I’m as insulated as anyone to the fires, but I grew up on the land and have had friends lose property multiple times over the years. I remember events in relation to when fires or floods happen here - ie - ‘was that around Black Saturday, or the Canberra fires’. When I went through my first radiation treatment I was living in Brisbane where the whole city (2m people) flooded.
Natural disasters are more frequent. Extreme weather is more frequent. The scientists have been telling us for years to quit ruining the planet - we really need to listen before it’s too late.
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Post by LKeet6 on Jan 8, 2020 13:50:33 GMT
Great post mate.
My carbon footprint is very low, apart from using aeroplanes 1-3 times a year, which I do feel bad about. We can all do more.
My brother works for extinction rebellion here in the UK. Which might get a mixed (or completely negative!) Reaction from people here, but when I challenge him on the criticisms (mostly playing devil's advocate, I support they're doing) his best response, as an overall reaction is when he said "I'd rather be pushing too hard and angering some people than not doing enough. It's literally crisis point now. Pissing people off is nowhere near enough of a reason to cut back on our actions."
I agree with him.
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Post by hammers1man on Jan 8, 2020 18:44:43 GMT
Great post mate. My carbon footprint is very low, apart from using aeroplanes 1-3 times a year, which I do feel bad about. We can all do more. My brother works for extinction rebellion here in the UK. Which might get a mixed (or completely negative!) Reaction from people here, but when I challenge him on the criticisms (mostly playing devil's advocate, I support they're doing) his best response, as an overall reaction is when he said "I'd rather be pushing too hard and angering some people than not doing enough. It's literally crisis point now. Pissing people off is nowhere near enough of a reason to cut back on our actions." I agree with him. Have you seen 'Our Planet' on Netflix Leon? A beautifully shot wildlife program narrated by Attenborough that shows the real implications of climate change to the animals it features. |
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Post by LKeet6 on Jan 9, 2020 11:03:20 GMT
Great post mate. My carbon footprint is very low, apart from using aeroplanes 1-3 times a year, which I do feel bad about. We can all do more. My brother works for extinction rebellion here in the UK. Which might get a mixed (or completely negative!) Reaction from people here, but when I challenge him on the criticisms (mostly playing devil's advocate, I support they're doing) his best response, as an overall reaction is when he said "I'd rather be pushing too hard and angering some people than not doing enough. It's literally crisis point now. Pissing people off is nowhere near enough of a reason to cut back on our actions." I agree with him. Have you seen 'Our Planet' on Netflix Leon? A beautifully shot wildlife program narrated by Attenborough that shows the real implications of climate change to the animals it features. No mate, don't think I have. I watch all the BBC ones (eventually; there's so many these days!) But haven't seen that one on Netflix. I'll have a look for it 👍 |
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Post by jeff on Jan 16, 2020 3:56:25 GMT
Sorry guys. The climate alarmists are wrong.
Their hyperbole is fueled by bad science based on bad modeling. Even the UN had to admit that last year. CO2 is not a poison and "greenhouse gases" are not warming the planet.
Climate change is real. Climate change driven by humans is not. That giant yellow thing in the sky and its electromagnetic connection to Earth is the driver of our climate changes. It's been doing so for millennia.
The taxing of carbon usage, the overhauling of entire industries based on carbon footprints, and the criminalization of fossil fuel, plastic and chemical usage is nothing more than a power and money grab by governments worldwide and their complicit corporate pals.
We need to keep our inhabited spaces clean and pretty. Recycling helps that. Limiting the chemicals and waste we dump into our rivers, streams and oceans helps that. Being good stewards of the air, land and sea that we occupy is smart. It's smart not because of some imagined harm we can do to the planet. It's smart because we can make our part of the planet a dirty and unpleasant place to live if we don't.
Point of reference: How much crap did the volcano Taal dump into the atmosphere all at once? Tons and tons and tons. Dirt, poisonous gases (real ones), other debris. Mother Earth gave a little cough and kept right on going. In a few months there won't be any sign that it ever erupted save for a big hole in the ground.
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Post by ray on Jan 16, 2020 4:08:19 GMT
I agree with (believe is probably more accurate) the scientists that are experts in the field.They overwhelmingly believe that man made climate change is real, verifiable and undeniable. I’m always happy to look at proof to back up any argument though so if you can provide any I’ll happily look at it.
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Post by jeff on Jan 16, 2020 4:23:33 GMT
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Post by ray on Jan 16, 2020 4:30:38 GMT
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Post by ray on Jan 16, 2020 5:22:30 GMT
Having read a few of their articles, I don’t think ‘realclimatesciemce’ is in a position to accuse others of cherry picking. It’s 100% of what they do.
I guess for me it boils down to a simple question. Do I believe the overwhelmingly large percentage of evidence and scientists who are specialists in the field - or do I believe a fringe minority that is inevitably involved in the fuel and oil industry who have little or no credibility within the scientific community.
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Post by ray on Jan 16, 2020 5:25:14 GMT
It’s obscene to me to mention economics when it comes to climate change.
The science is settled. It’s overwhelming. It’s as settled as the fact we are on a globe rather than a flat planet.
Question. What industry do you work in?
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Post by jeff on Jan 16, 2020 5:42:07 GMT
The article you quote loses a lot of its credibility when it suggests that because most of the 500 scientists are old men, with very few women in the group, they can't be trusted. Injecting political correctness into the debate dilutes any salient points that might have been made. And I disagree with many of the reviewers conclusions, whose livelihoods depend on getting government and university research grants. The same governments and universities that are driving the climate alarmist agenda. |
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Post by jeff on Jan 16, 2020 5:49:15 GMT
It’s obscene to me to mention economics when it comes to climate change. The science is settled. It’s overwhelming. It’s as settled as the fact we are on a globe rather than a flat planet.Question. What industry do you work in? I disagree with the bolded statement. Completely and whole-heartedly disagree. Maybe we should leave it at that? I won't be able to convince you otherwise, and you won't convince me. I just wasn't willing to let a claim like "we're at the pointy end of the climate crisis" go unchallenged. Now it's up to other readers to make up their own mind. Good debate, though. |
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Post by ray on Jan 16, 2020 6:26:01 GMT
I’m all for everyone’s right to their opinion, glad we can discuss it without being angry at each other.
I think you’re right that we won’t convince each other. I’ll need the 95 odd percent of scientists I’m trusting to admit they’re wrong. I also think we share the view that the other sides’ view is coloured by financial interest - I’m just more likely to believe it’s the 95 that are reading the data honestly and have all of our best interests at heart rather than the 5%.
Good chat 👍
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Post by LKeet6 on Jan 16, 2020 9:37:49 GMT
When people can start explaining things like these graphs, I'll start to listen. Yes, the earth absolutely does go through peaks and valleys in its climate and warming. So your assertion Jeff is that BY FAR the quickest warming ever experienced on earth has just so happened to coincide with the industrial revolution, created by humans? Pure coincidence; that's your claim?   |
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Post by LKeet6 on Jan 16, 2020 10:33:27 GMT
Jeff, did any of your evidence in those links support the idea that the earth "should" have warmed naturally during this period? I'm really sorry, but I'm not going to read through the links, as I've done this debate many times before, and the evidence handed to me has taken me a long time to read and just made me angry. I just looked my question up in an article discussing "is global warming 100% man made" and it actually came out saying it could be MORE than 100%! I.e, by their calculations, under normal circumstances, (solar output etc) the earth very well could've COOLED during this period! They put the range of human influence from like 75-140%. So yeah, it's definitely hard to tell; whilst still being incontrovertible that humans have had massive impact. I should probably bow out now, as I've admitted myself I'm too battle weary to go through it yet again, and like ray said, we'll never agree, but happy to leave it at civil conversation  If you have answers to the two simple questions- a) why has the earth warmed WAY faster than ever before b) can you show the natural causes of the warming- without me having to read through loads of stuff, just your interpretation, I'll consider it |
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