Port Royal GC - Bermuda

[Deleted]

Final version is published 11/12/20. It is Port Royal Golf Course. It has tournament crowds and objects.

Anyone is welcome to play the beta Port RB and provide feedback or scores.

paddyjk19 , andersnm , I know you guys are busy but if you have time I would appreciate any feedback as I highly regard it. If you can't evaluate the course, no worries. If you do get a chance to play the course I would like to see what the scores look like. This is not a lidar course. I couldn't find any data in Bermuda. I started with a flat plot and tried my best to get the elevations correct. I'm trying to get the course published by next week for the PGA Bermuda Championship (might get a few extra plays lol). I still have to smooth cart paths and sculpt most of the greens. I used the hole locations from the 2019 PGA Bermuda Championship. I have a few minor questions below;

I currently have no fairway rough. The course is short at 6,828 yds. So I thought it might help defend the course without the rough. Should I add the fairway rough?

Should I use the PGA event yellow flag or go with the red, white or blue (they use all 3 based on hole location) standard course flag?

The current tee markers are from a video a guy made when he played the course last year. It was a month before the PGA event. Should I use those or switch to the PGA tee markers? They used pink boxes but there is a plain wood box I can use. 

As always I appreciate your feedback!
 

[andersnm]

- Fairway rough - yes. To me, it looks like they have a first cut.

- Bunkers need more sculpting. I find them too shallow. Also, fairway bunkers seems to be too close to the fairway - from what I can see, there is more rough between the bunkers and fairways on pictures. 

Hole 2: The right side forest looks dense on pictures - it needs undergrowth. Also from google earth - there is housing on the right side of the road - I know this is periphere, but there seems to be a road closer to the course looking at google earth - which also goes right at the back of the tee on the 3rd.
Hole 3: There should be a house in the middle of your bushes straight ahead of the hole. Nothing behind the tees - in this game, the camera shows the golfer on the tee so you see behind the tee. I would make a field of mud there, the road, and some bushes along the field.
Hole 4: Coast from the tee is seen to the left - I think some undergrowth again is in order. Also missing some houses on the left side and behind the green with the road.
Hole 6: The big rectangular mound in the fairway in front of the green. Is it really so in real life? That looks really artificial. Picture of some bunkers you need to work on here Wade:



The bunker bends over the mound, which is unrealistic. It needs to sit down and the mound come up behind the bunker.

Hole 7: It looks like the green is much more elevated - from the dogleg, it seems to have much more elevation from the bottom, where the fairway goes to a plateu beside the first green-bunker, before the green is even more elevated.

This was so far I got tonight Wade. I will look into it more tomorrow - but at a first glance, you have a lot of sculpting work to do (this is where Lidar would be a really big help).

[andersnm]

I also forgot to mention that I would like to see the double water trick on the ponds

[Deleted]

Oct 20, 2020 21:04:09 GMT andersnm said:

- Fairway rough - yes. To me, it looks like they have a first cut.

- Bunkers need more sculpting. I find them too shallow. Also, fairway bunkers seems to be too close to the fairway - from what I can see, there is more rough between the bunkers and fairways on pictures. 

Hole 2: The right side forest looks dense on pictures - it needs undergrowth. Also from google earth - there is housing on the right side of the road - I know this is periphere, but there seems to be a road closer to the course looking at google earth - which also goes right at the back of the tee on the 3rd.
Hole 3: There should be a house in the middle of your bushes straight ahead of the hole. Nothing behind the tees - in this game, the camera shows the golfer on the tee so you see behind the tee. I would make a field of mud there, the road, and some bushes along the field.
Hole 4: Coast from the tee is seen to the left - I think some undergrowth again is in order. Also missing some houses on the left side and behind the green with the road.
Hole 6: The big rectangular mound in the fairway in front of the green. Is it really so in real life? That looks really artificial. Picture of some bunkers you need to work on here Wade:



The bunker bends over the mound, which is unrealistic. It needs to sit down and the mound come up behind the bunker.

Hole 7: It looks like the green is much more elevated - from the dogleg, it seems to have much more elevation from the bottom, where the fairway goes to a plateu beside the first green-bunker, before the green is even more elevated.

This was so far I got tonight Wade. I will look into it more tomorrow - but at a first glance, you have a lot of sculpting work to do (this is where Lidar would be a really big help).

Thanks Anders, That's exactly what I was looking for. I had a feeling you would say add the rough so I had already started it. I finished adding rough to all 18 holes and reworked the transitions as well as moving the bunkers back from the fairway. I will work on the bunkers tomorrow. I'm not sure what the double water trick in the ponds are? I did add fountains to all the ponds like I saw in pictures but in game they don't spray as much water lol. I will look at the other points you mentioned as well! 

[Deleted]

andersnm, I'm beginning to wonder how reliable Google Earth Pro is. I see what you are say about the green on #7. The picture shows an extremely elevated green. When I check GEP it tells me the green is lower than the fairway. Unless I am reading it incorrectly. 

[andersnm]

Oct 21, 2020 1:28:35 GMT @sirwade said:

andersnm , I'm beginning to wonder how reliable Google Earth Pro is. I see what you are saying about the green on #7. The picture shows an extremely elevated green. When I check GEP it tells me the green is lower than the fairway. Unless I am reading it incorrectly. 

Google Earth is not 100% precise. I partly made a french course in APCD - and the way I used Google Earth, was to mark points for basic elevation and it worked out well (I had also played the course, so I knew the basic elevations and how it looked). We can clearly see the problem on this course, where you on the pictures see elevation, where Google Earth have a slight downhill. You can't argue with pictures, so Google Earth is not accurate here

[paddyjk19]

Sorry I missed this Wade but will try to get a game in at the weekend to see if I can see anything

[andersnm]

Played the rest of the course Wade - and a few more points here:

Double water trick is to lay down a second water body below the first, this way, you get the rough texture all the way down to the water edge. Doing this carefully, and you can still have normal water texture on the rest of the pond. When I look at pictures of this course - the rough goes all the way down to the water.

As I said in my previous post - I think you need to go over every bunker on the course, and sculpt them better and deeper. I am not a fan of the mow-lines - I think they are too pronounced. A little bit lighter lines, and it would be more pleasing to my eyes and more natural. I think you have done a good job on the coast-line along the par 3 16th - but when I look behind me, the planting sort of stops. You need to have the coast done a bit behind the tee - and then we have the undergrowth on the forest parts of the course that I think you should add. The area between the 17th and 15th for example have fescue/high grass. I can't see any pictures of the huge area to the right on the 18th - between the 18th and the 14th - but I would think there is some fescue in that area as well.

I did take a look at some videos from the course, and it seems there is alot more elevation-changes throughout the course, but I understand that this is quite a challenge without lidar data.

[paddyjk19]

Wade, if you are still struggling with transitions;

tgctours.proboards.com/thread/25533/fairway-green-transitions

[Deleted]

Oct 22, 2020 16:36:53 GMT paddyjk19 said:

Sorry I missed this Wade but will try to get a game in at the weekend to see if I can see anything

No problem Paddy. I've been working hard on changes Anders suggested. I might have a newer beta version for you to try by the weekend. 

[Deleted]

Oct 22, 2020 21:01:54 GMT andersnm said:

Played the rest of the course Wade - and a few more points here:

Double water trick is to lay down a second water body below the first, this way, you get the rough texture all the way down to the water edge. Doing this carefully, and you can still have normal water texture on the rest of the pond. When I look at pictures of this course - the rough goes all the way down to the water.

As I said in my previous post - I think you need to go over every bunker on the course, and sculpt them better and deeper. I am not a fan of the mow-lines - I think they are too pronounced. A little bit lighter lines, and it would be more pleasing to my eyes and more natural. I think you have done a good job on the coast-line along the par 3 16th - but when I look behind me, the planting sort of stops. You need to have the coast done a bit behind the tee - and then we have the undergrowth on the forest parts of the course that I think you should add. The area between the 17th and 15th for example have fescue/high grass. I can't see any pictures of the huge area to the right on the 18th - between the 18th and the 14th - but I would think there is some fescue in that area as well.

I did take a look at some videos from the course, and it seems there is alot more elevation-changes throughout the course, but I understand that this is quite a challenge without lidar data.

Thanks Anders! I have redone all the bunkers on the front nine. Added the under growth in the areas you mentioned and other places that I noticed. Added the roads and houses and the mud field. I will work on the back nine tomorrow. I need to invest in a good computer and just do Lidar courses LOL. This course has been a beast starting from a flat plot! There are a lot of pictures of the course out there but they aren't dated so it's hard to tell if its an old picture or a new one. 

Great video on the course. Watching part 2 next. I would love to play this course IRL. The PGA will be here next week for the 2020 Bermuda Championship. 

[Deleted]

andersnm , what should I set the green speed to? I believe it is at 7.5 now and is playing at 160ish. I almost have the final beta ready to play. A few more touch ups here and there. Hopefully today. I'm hoping to publish the course by tomorrow or Monday. I don't like the mow lines either so I will fade them a low as possible and still see them. The only reason I put them in was because of this picture. For the double water trick can I put the second layer of water on top of what I have or does it have to go underneath the layer I already have in?






This is so beautiful I'm ready to move to Bermuda!

[andersnm]

Oct 24, 2020 11:14:10 GMT @sirwade said:

andersnm , what should I set the green speed to? I believe it is at 7.5 now and is playing at 160ish. I almost have the final beta ready to play. A few more touch ups here and there. Hopefully today. I'm hoping to publish the course by tomorrow or Monday. I don't like the mow lines either so I will fade them a low as possible and still see them. The only reason I put them in was because of this picture. For the double water trick can I put the second layer of water on top of what I have or does it have to go underneath the layer I already have in?

Yeah, I do not mind mow lines, just not so sharp.

I would recommend green speed between the default speed - so somewhere between medium-fast, or fast-very fast. That way, you have more options in the societies.

Double water - You lay down the second water body underneath the one you have. The lower that water body is, the more rough texture you get. So you can get rough texture on the whole pond. What I suggest, is to lay it so low that the rough goes down and a bit into the pond, but otherwise have the "water texture" for the rest of the pond. If that makes sense? 

[Deleted]

andersnm , paddyjk19 I just published my final beta. It is Port RB 77 Final. It took me much longer than I thought to do the double water trick on 4 lakes. Three of them turned out great but the final one between hole 17 and 18 was a Royal Pain. If you have time to give it a play and any suggestions it would be greatly appreciated. Sorry it took me so long, I am burnt out at the moment. lol

I forgot to ask what color texture do you guys normal use for Greens, Fairways and Rough? No sure I like the color of my course or not. 

[andersnm]

Oct 24, 2020 19:12:04 GMT @sirwade said:

andersnm , paddyjk19 I just published my final beta. It is Port RB Final. It took me much longer than I thought to do the double water trick on 4 lakes. Three of them turned out great but the final one between hole 17 and 18 was a Royal Pain. If you have time to give it a play and any suggestions it would be greatly appreciated. Sorry it took me so long, I am burnt out at the moment. lol

I forgot to ask what color texture do you guys normal use for Greens, Fairways and Rough? No sure I like the color of my course or not. 

For colors - I try to choose something that resembles video or photos. I will bet you will find the colors vary on pictures and on videos - so choose what you like from that.

I think you have made fantastic progress Wade. Considering you don't have lidar data, I think you have done a really good job and the course now looks and plays really nice. Here is my round with Legend difficulty and USE play: