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Post by polekatt/josia on Jul 17, 2020 16:15:53 GMT
Hey I was just thinking on something, and thought it may make a good topic to just see what each other thinks.
When I first started playing USE, the reason for this league was a push for more realism, in the gameplay, and scores. The gameplay has been very much that. But the scores are a different story. Back when we first started, I can remember Larry posting comparisons of USE average scores vs real average scores and was trying to get it as close as possible.
I just went and looked up what the average score in the pga is, and saw a list, and it appeared that the top 100 or so golfers in the world, their scores seemed to be around 67-72 PER round. On ours, it seems like the top scores are around 4-5 shots better than that, per round. One of the things I loved about this league when it started, was that there did not seem to be that pressure to birdie every single hole, like in TGC easy mode. I can remember several times people saying, in USE, if you can hit par, then you have done great, and if you manage a birdie, consider it a major accomplishment. But yet, now, it seems like the scores have gone more and more towards if you can't birdie, you are not gonna compete.
I'm not complaining or anything, don't get me wrong, I just wondered what others thoughts are on this. Would you rather play a game where if you can hit -5 you would be considered top dog, and is there a game that will do that? will 2K21 make things more difficult?
What do you guys think?
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Post by andersnm on Jul 17, 2020 16:42:45 GMT
USE is to play the game as realistic as possible. It is still a game, and not real life golf - and no game will ever replicate real life golf completely. Even if you play on a simulator with your own clubs and ball - it is still easier than real life, because you don't get all those different lies and you stand perfect on every shot on a mat.
I think that we must look at different aspects of the game. I have only access to the PC stats - so I will use that.
Off the tee:
Fairway accuracy is 68-83%. My own accuracy has gotten much better since changing controller (with the new controller, I do not any longer pull the shots, but hit straight - and my fairway accuracy has gone from 65% to 80%+).This gives ca. 75% fairways average for PC. The average on the PGA tour is 60%.
So USE in TGC 2019 is much more accurate off the tee compared to real life PGA tour. So the new game need to be much harder to hit accurate off the tee.
Green in regulation: 63%-79% with an average ca. 70%. This is much more in line with the PGA tour average that is 66,5%, though even here better than real life
So what can we take from this? Accuracy with the driver is too accurate, but irons, wedges and general apporach shots is much better compared to real life stats. This reflects my experience of the game also - it is no reason to drop the driver, as it is the same challenge to hit straight with a 3 wood or an iron. So most important is to make the driver much harder to hit straight, and also the woods.
Scrambling: 53%-85¤. This is way better than the real life PGA tour with average of 59% and the best at 69%.
It is hard to say excact what is too easy, but I will at least say the flop shot is way too easy in the game. The flop shot is a high risk shot that is not reflected in the game. I find chipping to be good - but also there too easy out of thick rough.
Putting:
Putts per hole is 1,69-1,48.
Best on the PGA tour is 1,53 - the worse is 1,71. So even though Paul says putting is easier in the game and USE than real life - this is not by much and is quite close to what we see in real life.
So overall reasons to our better scores: Too accurate with the driver off the tee, and too easy scrambling.
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Post by andersnm on Jul 17, 2020 16:59:26 GMT
It would be interesting if someone also posted the stats from XBox and PS4.
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Post by hammers1man on Jul 17, 2020 17:21:40 GMT
The driver was a lot harder to hit fairways consistently on TGC2 they eased the difficulty a bit, putting was a bit harder also. Hopefully like Anders mentioned they should make the longer clubs gradually tougher. The driver should be tougher to hit than a 3 wood.
Scrambling is easier compared to real life but without the loft box at least it has some challenge.
Regarding difficulty I believe we should play the hardest setting in the new game and hopefully that won't scare some away if it's harder to break par. Apart from being able to lock off the different aids, the biggest improvement to the new game for me would be an equal difficulty for all the platforms.
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Post by hammers1man on Jul 17, 2020 17:28:17 GMT
USE is to play the game as realistic as possible. It is still a game, and not real life golf - and no game will ever replicate real life golf completely. Even if you play on a simulator with your own clubs and ball - it is still easier than real life, because you don't get all those different lies and you stand perfect on every shot on a mat. I think that we must look at different aspects of the game. I have only access to the PC stats - so I will use that. Off the tee: Fairway accuracy is 68-83%. My own accuracy has gotten much better since changing controller (with the new controller, I do not any longer pull the shots, but hit straight - and my fairway accuracy has gone from 65% to 80%+).This gives ca. 75% fairways average for PC. The average on the PGA tour is 60%. So USE in TGC 2019 is much more accurate off the tee compared to real life PGA tour. So the new game need to be much harder to hit accurate off the tee. Green in regulation: 63%-79% with an average ca. 70%. This is much more in line with the PGA tour average that is 66,5%, though even here better than real life So what can we take from this? Accuracy with the driver is too accurate, but irons, wedges and general apporach shots is much better compared to real life stats. This reflects my experience of the game also - it is no reason to drop the driver, as it is the same challenge to hit straight with a 3 wood or an iron. So most important is to make the driver much harder to hit straight, and also the woods. Scrambling: 53%-85¤. This is way better than the real life PGA tour with average of 59% and the best at 69%. It is hard to say excact what is too easy, but I will at least say the flop shot is way too easy in the game. The flop shot is a high risk shot that is not reflected in the game. I find chipping to be good - but also there too easy out of thick rough. Putting: Putts per hole is 1,69-1,48. Best on the PGA tour is 1,53 - the worse is 1,71. So even though Paul says putting is easier in the game and USE than real life - this is not by much and is quite close to what we see in real life. So overall reasons to our better scores: Too accurate with the driver off the tee, and too easy scrambling. The longer putting I would say is pretty close to real life but the putting pulls away from that from 10 foot and under. |
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Post by andersnm on Jul 17, 2020 17:31:14 GMT
The driver was a lot harder to hit fairways consistently on TGC2 they eased the difficulty a bit, putting was a bit harder also. Hopefully like Anders mentioned they should make the longer clubs gradually tougher. The driver should be tougher to hit than a 3 wood. Scrambling is easier compared to real life but without the loft box at least it has some challenge. Regarding difficulty I believe we should play the hardest setting in the new game and hopefully that won't scare some away if it's harder to break par. Apart from being able to lock off the different aids, the biggest improvement to the new game for me would be an equal difficulty for all the platforms. Yes, they have clearly said they made the swingline easier, because it is easier to cheat compared to tempo. This is very good in my opinion - but the way they made the tempo misses is making it too easy imo. As long as you hit perfect tempo - your straight. So no matter where inside the blue cone you are, all is good as long as your not outside - and once your outside, the miss is big. I would like a more gradual miss from the complete center making hitting a straight shot almost impossible. And yes, a driver should be harder than a 3 wood - and a 3 wood harder than a 3 iron etc. We play on the same difficulty, but there will be differences in performance with different controllers (like my old xbox360 controller compared to the one I use now - that was a huge difference), different systems. For us on PC - a good PC is performing better than a slower PC though you can tweak the graphic settings. I don't think HB will completely be able to not run into such issues. |
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Post by hammers1man on Jul 17, 2020 18:12:30 GMT
It would be interesting if someone also posted the stats from XBox and PS4. I pulled up a few of the PS4 stats on twitter. Couldn't get the scrambling as the link stopped working. twitter.com/hammers1man |
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Post by andersnm on Jul 17, 2020 18:17:14 GMT
It would be interesting if someone also posted the stats from XBox and PS4. I pulled up a few of the PS4 stats on twitter. Couldn't get the scrambling as the link stopped working. twitter.com/hammers1manFrom a glance, better GIR stats compared to PC - putting was pretty much the same. Fairway accuracy also compareable to PC. |
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Post by hammers1man on Jul 17, 2020 18:23:32 GMT
Putting on PS4 is pretty much the same as PC in my experience. The tempo is faster than PC, it's not as easy as everyone makes out on PS4. I have always known that Gav is a good long putter, 17% is really impressive from 988 putts. Wade tops the longest putt at 64 foot.
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Post by andersnm on Jul 17, 2020 18:31:39 GMT
Putting on PS4 is pretty much the same as PC in my experience. The tempo is faster than PC, it's not as easy as everyone makes out on PS4. I have always known that Gav is a good long putter, 17% is really impressive from 988 putts. Wade tops the longest putt at 64 foot. Fairway and GIR on 80%+ is anyway way better than real life PGA tour (which several players has). After I changed controller, I find myself on similar accuracy. My only real misses are tempo misses - and I bet that is the case for most of us. What is the scrambling %'s on PS4? 80%+ for several? From the stats, and also from what I see - the main problem are too accurate off the tee and also too high GIR stats for several players - and combine that with too good scrambling. I can't see putting is the reason for our lower scores compared to real life. It is very nice to see how different Muirfield Villiage is in real life this weekend compared to last week - when you see Brooks Koepka chip short of the green from that deep rough - you know it is hard. We don't have those problems in our game. So overall, it is too easy to scramble in the game. I don't think chipping from fairway is too easy, but from rough - yes, it is. It is hard to control distance from heavy rough in real life. And add the too easy flop shot to the equation. |
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Post by hammers1man on Jul 17, 2020 18:43:08 GMT
Putting on PS4 is pretty much the same as PC in my experience. The tempo is faster than PC, it's not as easy as everyone makes out on PS4. I have always known that Gav is a good long putter, 17% is really impressive from 988 putts. Wade tops the longest putt at 64 foot. Fairway and GIR on 80%+ is anyway way better than real life PGA tour (which several players has). After I changed controller, I find myself on similar accuracy. My only real misses are tempo misses - and I bet that is the case for most of us. What is the scrambling %'s on PS4? 80%+ for several? From the stats, and also from what I see - the main problem are too accurate off the tee and also too high GIR stats for several players - and combine that with too good scrambling. I can't see putting is the reason for our lower scores compared to real life. It is very nice to see how different Muirfield Villiage is in real life this weekend compared to last week - when you see Brooks Koepka chip short of the green from that deep rough - you know it is hard. We don't have those problems in our game. So overall, it is too easy to scramble in the game. I don't think chipping from fairway is too easy, but from rough - yes, it is. It is hard to control distance from heavy rough in real life. And add the too easy flop shot to the equation. Yes I have always found the heavy rough around the green not too penal in the game. Pitching is harder than flops so something is wrong there also. I hope they up the difficulty of flops so you would only attempt them if it's your only choice. |
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