Pumbaa Ranch GC by stoneysooner

[andersnm]

As promised, I had a round at Pumbaa Ranch GC by stoneysooner . I had previously tried the gold tees and was adviced to play the blue - thats what I remember anyway, so that is what I did. Playing as always like we do here on USE:



More feedback in new post

[stoneysooner]

Anders,

I know you don't like playing fantasy courses, but I really do appreciate you taking the time to play my course again. I hope that it didn't feel as forced from a different set of tees. I tried to add some realism with an upscale housing development behind the 17th, and that was all because of you.

Again, I appreciate the play.

[andersnm]

Jan 2, 2020 13:37:44 GMT stoneysooner said:

Anders,

I know you don't like playing fantasy courses, but I really do appreciate you taking the time to play my course again. I hope that it didn't feel as forced from a different set of tees. I tried to add some realism with an upscale housing development behind the 17th, and that was all because of you.

Again, I appreciate the play.

I didn't manage to get in the feedback last night, so I will write it this evening and you will get my opinion on the course I hope my opinion can be of some value

[andersnm]

I have played golf for so many years and played video golf games for even more years, so I evaluate courses when I play them and think I have developed a good understanding of what makes a good hole and course. So when I did give you feedback last time, I was a bit inspired to look at the WC courses (you may know I have provided some feedback on some of them? (I'm not sure how well the feedback has been taken, so I think I will be sticking to those here that want an opinion)).

This course is not easy from the gold or blue tees. I hit the ball very good on this round, had three mistakes that was punished on the 2nd and 10th hole. I also had a very fast downswing that ended up on the fairway on another hole somewhere along the way.

My first impression on the beta playthrough was that the course was too long, 7900 yards. No par 5 was reachable, and the par 4's and 3's was all long with few exceptions. Many tee shots and holes felt for that reason repetitive, and the bunkers and general strategy was seen from me to be as designed to the master clubs in the game. Blue tees is a little over 7500 yards, but none of the par 5 was reachable from this tee either for me. So to the general routing of the course:

I think at least one or two par 5's should be reachable with a good tee shot (also from the back tees). I played with default wind, and perhaps I could reach one or two with tailwind. To be fair, I play with a driver and 3 wood in my bag, so with a 2 wood (which in real life is just a strong 3 wood - like 13-14 degrees instead of 15 degrees of loft) I don't know if I could have reached one or two, but I don't think so. I do not use a driver from fairway as that is totaly unrealistic. This is very rarely seen, and the most famous is perhaps Bubba Watson on Kapalua. The way driver of fairway works in the game is not realistic for me.
Another thing to be aware of, is that one par 5 is very long from the front tees. Hole 11. This is purely from a realistic point of view. Even a length of 500 yards on a hole is a stretch from the front tees for a lot of golfers that don't have that long game.

The course flows naturaly in the terrain, and I think that the white tees would be even better as you get even more variation. I got some feeling that there was a little bit too many holes that felt the same also from the blue tees - quite straight long par 4's (little to no dogleg involved), but perhaps this was a feeling due to the length of the par 5's as well. Overall a very good and natural design of the holes and I was never punished for good shots (which is very important for me as a golfer). Many very good designed holes with good golf strategy you offer to the golfer. I think even a 5th teeset would be good since the game provides it.

The greens: very good. The most important part of the course, and I think you may have eased the 12th a bit? I told you last time that some greens on the long holes with long approaches was good design, but not very reseptive for long approaches (so could be better with shorter length). I did not have that feeling on this playthrough. I had a few tucked pins behind bunkers, and it was perfect on long shots (ie 170-190 carry). I had to think if I was to carry the bunker or aim mid-green, and a good execution from me with a carry was not repelled off the green and I had at least one 17 feet birdie putt on such a hole. So you add the risk/reward, and you actually reward a good shot. 

Bunkers: there where a couple of long holes that had some open area next to the fairway (example the one beside hole nr 1), that I think could have used with another bunker closer to tee, and as I said - I don't believe so much in putting all these in the yardages for the master clubs/pro clubs in the game, but thinking more on how the tee shot would be from different tees for different players. Then you will find good spots for bunkers that will feel natural and realistic. Greenside was good that fits the greendesign well.

I like the added atmosphere with the ranch-feel of animals, fences, houses etc. All makes for a more realistic feel

[stoneysooner]

I really do appreciate this feedback. Not sure what the more seasoned designers in the WCoD do with their feedback, but I can tell you that I use mine to make my next course even better. I set out on this course with a very small focus to get this Tour Worthy and sell the heck out of it to get it on the PGA Tour. With that said, I know the length of this course and the strategy off the tee won't fit for everyone. I did shorten the 3rd hole to make it reachable, and while there may not be two reachable par 5's in each round there should at least be one in any round due to how they sit at differing directions.

I did ease the 12th green, but pin #1 is being reported as illegal. I'm not sure how much I buy into the 9 box rule, but to get it on tour that pin will need to be fixed. I will certainly use your feedback going forward, and my next project will be even better due to your valuable feedback. Plus, the tour version of this course should have more improvement on the released version as well.

Once again, I appreciate the time you took to play and the notes you left me.

[andersnm]

Jan 2, 2020 16:26:27 GMT stoneysooner said:

I really do appreciate this feedback. Not sure what the more seasoned designers in the WCoD do with their feedback, but I can tell you that I use mine to make my next course even better. I set out on this course with a very small focus to get this Tour Worthy and sell the heck out of it to get it on the PGA Tour. With that said, I know the length of this course and the strategy off the tee won't fit for everyone. I did shorten the 3rd hole to make it reachable, and while there may not be two reachable par 5's in each round there should at least be one in any round due to how they sit at differing directions.

I did ease the 12th green, but pin #1 is being reported as illegal. I'm not sure how much I buy into the 9 box rule, but to get it on tour that pin will need to be fixed. I will certainly use your feedback going forward, and my next project will be even better due to your valuable feedback. Plus, the tour version of this course should have more improvement on the released version as well.

Once again, I appreciate the time you took to play and the notes you left me.

I've got two responses that where arguing strongly for their own design - and "counter my points". That's why I ask myself if the feedback is wanted on the WCoD, so I think I just will not do that. But I'm happy to play and give feedback from a golfers perspective for those that want it as long as I have time to do so.

The 9 box rule; in real life, there is a general consensus that there should be at least 3 feet of gentle slope around the pin so that the balls stays where it is. Problem in this game, is that the slope can be green on the grid, and the ball can still roll down. So you need to playtest regardless of color. Also, 9 boxes is much larger than 3 feet - it is also not circular.

[booze]

Jan 2, 2020 13:37:44 GMT stoneysooner said:

Anders,

I know you don't like playing fantasy courses, but I really do appreciate you taking the time to play my course again. I hope that it didn't feel as forced from a different set of tees. I tried to add some realism with an upscale housing development behind the 17th, and that was all because of you.

Again, I appreciate the play.

Stoney- I gave this a few more plays, this time from the blues...played gold last time. My first play was full on psycho mode (pin2) : Very high wind, very firm, very firm, very fast, USE rules lol. I somehow went -3, it was a lot of fun. Second play I went more “PGA style”, so aids on...left everything on default except medium wind. I went -10. Played tough as I needed a few chip ins, but everything felt fair. For reference, I’m on pga but battle the cut line most weeks. I wish I could offer up actual feedback, but like last time I just know absolutely nothing about course design. I like it though.

[stoneysooner]

Booze,

That -3 USE style round is super impressive. Appreciate the play and feedback (you played it more than once, so it is at least holding some attention). It is getting a pretty good response, so probably time to add the Tournament Objects and start selling it to the PGA scheduler.

[paddyjk19]

Haven’t played yet but saw the photos on the other forum, looks very tidy! Good work.

Have you done many courses before?

[stoneysooner]

This is my 3rd course. I didn't make the finals in the 2018 Rookie Contest with Spion Knop, but Horseshoe Bay Golf Club was my second course and was voted as Tour Worthy and used for a TST event and a CC event. I loved that course. Pumbaa Ranch is my 3rd, and while an improvement in skill on my part, it was designed with the very top tours in mind.

I would love to know what you think.

[zzfr33b1rdzz]

I wouldn''t mind the feedback on my WCoD course if you wouldn't mind another fictional course andersnm...Mulligan Quarry.
This course is my 4th official publish and was approved as Tour Worthy if that means anything to anyone...

I'm always looking for ways to improve and welcome any feedback..

If anyone else wants to give it a cfrack as well, I appreciate the plays..

Here's the submission link..

tgctours.proboards.com/thread/21607/mulligan-quarry-wcod-entry-group

[booze]

Jan 3, 2020 17:47:21 GMT stoneysooner said:

Booze,

That -3 USE style round is super impressive. Appreciate the play and feedback (you played it more than once, so it is at least holding some attention). It is getting a pretty good response, so probably time to add the Tournament Objects and start selling it to the PGA scheduler.

Good luck man, hope it makes it. I would like playing it on PGA....although having said that I’d probably jinx myself and fast it into the water on the left off the tee hole 1 lol.

[Deleted]

Robyn, I played the tour version and really loved it! #12 wasn't so bad for me this time, I only double bogeyed it lol. Not sure if you modified it or not. This is a very solid course and should be on a tour!

[ray]

Played the course on Gold tees, pins 1 and 2.

I’m not a designer so I can’t comment on the technical stuff, but it looks like you know what you’re doing in the designer - no weird edges or anything that I noticed. The planting looked good.

I found the course to be overly long, or narrow. Either one would be ok without the other, but combined it became a bit of a grind. The pins in round 2 were fairly brutal. Just a metre or two further away from the pitfall (be it a step up or down or an edge of a green or a bunker etc) would have still had the same effect without being quite so penal.

I gave it 4 stars. It’s tour worthy in my opinion, just a bit of a grind. Would make a tough test in anything higher than medium winds.