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Post by hammers1man on Feb 29, 2020 15:46:58 GMT
Just to clarify, I don’t use loft on flops in this society, I use a partial swing and hope for the best 👍 I don't use the loft box PERIOD! Gave that up long ago just for ease of use (see what I did there?). Just lends a bit of realism and strategy to play IMO. Onward. Loft box is a dirty word to my ears 😉, the option to lock it out of society tournaments is the biggest improvement the next game could have for me. |
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Post by ray on Feb 29, 2020 16:02:02 GMT
I think where the exploit comes in is when you deliberately swing bad. It makes the points the game is taking the lines from (at the bottom and top) more predictable. I imagine it would take a short time on the practice fairway to dial it in. How can a deliberately bad swing be an exploit!? How on earth do you think to control a bad swing? The best guys that shows this is perhaps unclevirt and z3nz. And you will see a very consistent swing with very little zig-zag. Z3enz even has his normal shot inside the blue bar all the way. How is that an exploit? Isn't that skill? To have the same swing over and over again with the same result. If you swing deliberately very bad - you are subject to luck. And that my friend - is not a way to be good. I know what I talk about - because I can have quite large differences in my swing line, and it is not good for me. I am happy with all shots within 15 feet of the pin. The usual big misses are with tempo - but still I miss greens with my swing line - even though I compensate for it. If this was to be such an advantage that is claimed over at TGC tours - I should dart every pin. I think you missed the part where I said I agree with you and understand your point. I’ve watched people’s streams that have spent a little time, literally 5 minutes, and managed to do a repeatable swing that was nowhere near the line at any stage. They were doing it with a haphazard swing that must have been near the edge of registering as a swing at all. No one has said you’re doing anything wrong. I don’t think it’s important that everyone agrees with your interpretation of what’s happening, so long as we all play with the right intent. |
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Post by andersnm on Feb 29, 2020 16:23:06 GMT
How can a deliberately bad swing be an exploit!? How on earth do you think to control a bad swing? The best guys that shows this is perhaps unclevirt and z3nz . And you will see a very consistent swing with very little zig-zag. Z3enz even has his normal shot inside the blue bar all the way. How is that an exploit? Isn't that skill? To have the same swing over and over again with the same result. If you swing deliberately very bad - you are subject to luck. And that my friend - is not a way to be good. I know what I talk about - because I can have quite large differences in my swing line, and it is not good for me. I am happy with all shots within 15 feet of the pin. The usual big misses are with tempo - but still I miss greens with my swing line - even though I compensate for it. If this was to be such an advantage that is claimed over at TGC tours - I should dart every pin. I think you missed the part where I said I agree with you and understand your point. I’ve watched people’s streams that have spent a little time, literally 5 minutes, and managed to do a repeatable swing that was nowhere near the line at any stage. They were doing it with a haphazard swing that must have been near the edge of registering as a swing at all. No one has said you’re doing anything wrong. I don’t think it’s important that everyone agrees with your interpretation of what’s happening, so long as we all play with the right intent. You said that an intentional bad swing is an exploit, right? I strongly disagree. If you have a repeatable bad swing, you either are always lucky, or you do the same thing over and over. And then comes the question, what is a bad swing? The more zig-zag you get, the more errors you are likely to get in my opinion. A line that goes in a straight line from 6 to 13 is just as hard to repeat as a straight line from 6 to 12, to have the exact same zig-zag is imho harder. But some are better with the controller than others - that is perfectly fine. And that is not an exploit! The only swing that I know I can do everytime is to go back straight on my controller, then turn the controller around - that gives a swing line on the circle, and you will miss the same to the left or right each time. I also can do a consistent very slow that way. If someone would calculate how much to compensate for such a swing, you would hit the exact same spot everytime. Here is a video of such a swing: Now, calculations and doing this - would indeed be an exploit - but that is quite different from what is the thing discussed on TGC tours forum. |
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Post by hammers1man on Feb 29, 2020 18:28:35 GMT
Looks like I am going to be the first to say it. If you turn swing feedback off, none of this really matters. Just hit your shots and go by feel, maybe that should be a requirement for everyone's state of mind. Do we really need it on to enjoy this game, or do we need it on full stop?
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Post by hammers1man on Feb 29, 2020 18:41:11 GMT
All the info you need is in your ball flight.
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Post by andersnm on Feb 29, 2020 18:55:34 GMT
Looks like I am going to be the first to say it. If you turn swing feedback off, none of this really matters. Just hit your shots and go by feel, maybe that should be a requirement for everyone's state of mind. Do we really need it on to enjoy this game, or do we need it on full stop? I will try it Paul.  |
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Post by andersnm on Feb 29, 2020 21:52:25 GMT
Okay. I am sold on shot feedback off. So much better on all levels. You relax more, and there is so much better to watch the ball take flight instead of the eyes going for the feedback.  |
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Post by hammers1man on Feb 29, 2020 22:12:56 GMT
Okay. I am sold on shot feedback off. So much better on all levels. You relax more, and there is so much better to watch the ball take flight instead of the eyes going for the feedback. |
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Post by LKeet6 on Feb 29, 2020 22:30:21 GMT
Looks like I am going to be the first to say it. If you turn swing feedback off, none of this really matters. Just hit your shots and go by feel, maybe that should be a requirement for everyone's state of mind. Do we really need it on to enjoy this game, or do we need it on full stop? I'm personally reluctant to remove another thing, but I can defo see the logic to it... |
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Post by hammers1man on Feb 29, 2020 22:37:26 GMT
Looks like I am going to be the first to say it. If you turn swing feedback off, none of this really matters. Just hit your shots and go by feel, maybe that should be a requirement for everyone's state of mind. Do we really need it on to enjoy this game, or do we need it on full stop? I'm personally reluctant to remove another thing, but I can defo see the logic to it... We have been preaching this for a long time, you don't need it on as all the info you need is in the ball flight and it's way more realistic. |
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Post by ray on Mar 1, 2020 1:08:19 GMT
I'm personally reluctant to remove another thing, but I can defo see the logic to it... We have been preaching this for a long time, you don't need it on as all the info you need is in the ball flight and it's way more realistic. I’m already at a disadvantage over tempo, shutting off feedback removes the only way I have to check it with the variable XB tempo. I use practice swings to get a base line. I’ve played with it off enough to know that I end up guessing to adjust, and not enjoying it. |
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booze
Full Member
Posts: 213
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Post by booze on Mar 1, 2020 8:57:24 GMT
I think where the exploit comes in is when you deliberately swing bad. It makes the points the game is taking the lines from (at the bottom and top) more predictable. I imagine it would take a short time on the practice fairway to dial it in. How can a deliberately bad swing be an exploit!? How on earth do you think to control a bad swing? The best guys that shows this is perhaps unclevirt and z3nz . And you will see a very consistent swing with very little zig-zag. Z3enz even has his normal shot inside the blue bar all the way. How is that an exploit? Isn't that skill? To have the same swing over and over again with the same result. If you swing deliberately very bad - you are subject to luck. And that my friend - is not a way to be good. I know what I talk about - because I can have quite large differences in my swing line, and it is not good for me. I am happy with all shots within 15 feet of the pin. The usual big misses are with tempo - but still I miss greens with my swing line - even though I compensate for it. If this was to be such an advantage that is claimed over at TGC tours - I should dart every pin. A deliberately bad swing, which in this case means outside the cone, is an exploit when you know you can be a little off and still be on target. I think you might be missing this point. There is a very clear difference between shooting straight and missing some vs deliberately playing a push (or pull) swing line and missing your swing. You are punished much less. This was proven in testing as well as my own experience. Aside from what I did here, I also replayed my first pga round today just messing around with my same bs swing, and improved by 4 shots to go -13 on the very first try. I’m not lying. No warmup. I even screwed some shots up with tempo as I have no prior experience swinging off line like this. That’s just ridiculous. The game isn’t meant to be played like this with garbage swings. By no means am I even close to being one of the top players in this game either. Tyler Duke made a video as well going -15 through 15 at Augusta doing a similar shit swing that I was doing. This really isn’t any different than flicking as it’s an advantage for accuracy. I’ll continue to play on as I like it here, if I’m coming off as attacking I really don’t mean to. But I really do think people should be trying to swing “in the cone” with all the evidence that’s come out. Just my opinion. Doyley has been talking about possibly doing an API thing for this, so it’s a pretty big deal. It’s not just unfounded speculation. It really is an exploit. There’s no way it could be a rule here and I’d never expect it to, way too many variables where even I go offline. Happens to everyone. I just think people should honestly be intending to shoot straight is all. |
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Post by ray on Mar 1, 2020 9:04:02 GMT
Based on what I’ve seen, I agree with Booze’s assessment.
I’m over talking about it though, so I’ll leave you guys to it. I think the fact I score as bad as I do in spite of my straight lines makes me ok, so it’s not a ‘me’ problem unless it becomes a bigger issue within the society and people get angsty.
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booze
Full Member
Posts: 213
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Post by booze on Mar 1, 2020 9:31:16 GMT
Based on what I’ve seen, I agree with Booze’s assessment. I’m over talking about it though, so I’ll leave you guys to it. I think the fact I score as bad as I do in spite of my straight lines makes me ok, so it’s not a ‘me’ problem unless it becomes a bigger issue within the society and people get angsty. Yeah, I’m pretty much with you Ray. Its good to discuss it but at the end of the day, it is what it is. There’s no way to police it. If the person playing believes they aren’t taking an advantage doing something, that’s good enough for me. I do think people should work on shooting straight in light of the findings, but it’s just my opinion. Can’t be made a rule. we should probably move to more important matters....like stoney’s comment about hearing John call a fade for his ghost opponent lol. That has really stuck with me |
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Post by LKeet6 on Mar 1, 2020 9:33:24 GMT
So once again, just to clarify, and make sure this debate doesn't go the wrong way, NOBODY is saying anyone here has been deliberately exploitng anything.
I personally also agree with booze, and it's clear Anders isn't going to, but booze is saying SOME people are able to use this knowledge to their advantage, that doesn't mean that OTHER people who occasionally replicate this type of swing are gaining a significant advantage or need to be policed.
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